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Thread: Squad for the 2017/2018 season, thread 1

  1. #2011  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    He was horrid? Are you serious? What was our record under Karius? He had 2 shaky games. Jesus, your memory is failing you today my friend.

    What are you talking about with Ings. You haven't seen him play for 2 seasons, and he's done his ACL twice. You're willing to bet on him over Firmino? My lord....

    Martial was one of the best forwards in the game last year when played in his natural 9 position. Your analysis of him is way off. I'm not going to bother with it.
    Go back and watch Karius' starts again. You really think he lost his place in the team because of 2 shaky games? Your memory is cloudy today, mate. Remember that Klopp bought him? So, he's Klopp's guy, so much so that despite an injury in pre-season, he gives him the starting job when he returns to fitness over Mignolet who hadn't put a foot wrong in those initial games. Clearly, Klopp wants Karius to be his number one, right? But, after just two shaky games, Klopp pulls him and restores Mignolet as the number one. Is that what you're implying? Every keeper has a few rough patches along the way. The fact that we as a fanbase were clambering to get Mignolet back should jog your memory and tell you that he was horrid in goal. Is he our goalkeeper of the future, perhaps. But, again to reiterate my point, he hasn't shown it, yet. I don't doubt his ability, but performance is what matters most.

    Ings, I'm not saying is an upgrade on Firmino. I never once said that and didn't mean to suggest it. My point is that he possesses qualities Firmino doesn't, like genuine pace. Like you said, he's done his ACL twice and as such, he may be a lost cause at this point. Without his pace, I don't see how the rest of his game would be "good enough". But, let's give him a shot, eh?

    I'm going to quote you directly here: "Martial was one of the best forwards in the game last year when played in his natural 9 position." You just made my point. He was, not he is. I rate Martial highly, and feel his regression is more to do with Mourinho than himself. But, that doesn't take away from my point one bit. Young players have a tendancy to blow hot and cold, whatever the reason. Established players can typically perform in multiple roles and maintain their high level. Ibrahimovic, as an example paired up with Cavani at PSG. At United, he does it all alone with support from the wide areas, not from a second striker. Top player get's it done cause he's got the experience.
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  2. #2012  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDex87 View Post
    Go back and watch Karius' starts again. You really think he lost his place in the team because of 2 shaky games? Your memory is cloudy today, mate. Remember that Klopp bought him? So, he's Klopp's guy, so much so that despite an injury in pre-season, he gives him the starting job when he returns to fitness over Mignolet who hadn't put a foot wrong in those initial games. Clearly, Klopp wants Karius to be his number one, right? But, after just two shaky games, Klopp pulls him and restores Mignolet as the number one. Is that what you're implying? Every keeper has a few rough patches along the way. The fact that we as a fanbase were clambering to get Mignolet back should jog your memory and tell you that he was horrid in goal. Is he our goalkeeper of the future, perhaps. But, again to reiterate my point, he hasn't shown it, yet. I don't doubt his ability, but performance is what matters most.

    Ings, I'm not saying is an upgrade on Firmino. I never once said that and didn't mean to suggest it. My point is that he possesses qualities Firmino doesn't, like genuine pace. Like you said, he's done his ACL twice and as such, he may be a lost cause at this point. Without his pace, I don't see how the rest of his game would be "good enough". But, let's give him a shot, eh?

    I'm going to quote you directly here: "Martial was one of the best forwards in the game last year when played in his natural 9 position." You just made my point. He was, not he is. I rate Martial highly, and feel his regression is more to do with Mourinho than himself. But, that doesn't take away from my point one bit. Young players have a tendancy to blow hot and cold, whatever the reason. Established players can typically perform in multiple roles and maintain their high level. Ibrahimovic, as an example paired up with Cavani at PSG. At United, he does it all alone with support from the wide areas, not from a second striker. Top player get's it done cause he's got the experience.
    No one was clamoring for Migs to come back. Just go look at the old threads. It's pretty obvious every wanted Migs gone. And then 3 months later he's our star keeper going forward. You have your opinion, I have mine. I'd rather stick with Karius, because I know what Migs is.

    Ings does not have pace. Are you serious? You never watched him at Burnley, and I know you haven't seen him here, because he hasn't played. He needs to move on.

    And yes, Martial is the business, but he's playing under an even more defensive manager in Jose, and he's playing out wide. He hasn't regressed as a player, that's for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    No one was clamoring for Migs to come back. Just go look at the old threads. It's pretty obvious every wanted Migs gone. And then 3 months later he's our star keeper going forward. You have your opinion, I have mine. I'd rather stick with Karius, because I know what Migs is.

    Ings does not have pace. Are you serious? You never watched him at Burnley, and I know you haven't seen him here, because he hasn't played. He needs to move on.

    And yes, Martial is the business, but he's playing under an even more defensive manager in Jose, and he's playing out wide. He hasn't regressed as a player, that's for sure.
    The forums aren't necessarily the "pulse of the fanbase" mate. The crowd at Anfield had grown nervous with Karius and the pundits rightly pointed out his contributions to our early stumbles. I think your logic is flawed when you say that you already know what Mignolet is. He's proved in this season that he can improve and I am surprised to hear you say that. If Klopp wants to bring in a De Gea, Lloris, Leno, Ter Stegen or similar level of GK, I'm all for that. But a young man who played for Mainz in the Bundesliga, who hasn't shown his worth as of yet, should not get the nod over Mignolet in the form he's in. That's all I'm saying.

    Ings does have pace, more than Firmino, that's for sure. I'm again not saying he's one of the fastest players in the league, but if he has a step on the defender, they won't catch him. Firmino gets in behind and is caught within a few strides, every time.

    As for Martial, I'm not saying he as a player has gotten worse, but he isn't performing like a big signing should. It's not like Mourinho is asking him to play full back, or defensive midfield. He's asking him to play out wide where players like Ronaldo, Messi, and Bale thrive. If you've got pace and technique, why can't you play out wide...?
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    if de gea goes to real,we could go for navas.hes having great season
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDex87 View Post
    The forums aren't necessarily the "pulse of the fanbase" mate. The crowd at Anfield had grown nervous with Karius and the pundits rightly pointed out his contributions to our early stumbles. I think your logic is flawed when you say that you already know what Mignolet is. He's proved in this season that he can improve and I am surprised to hear you say that. If Klopp wants to bring in a De Gea, Lloris, Leno, Ter Stegen or similar level of GK, I'm all for that. But a young man who played for Mainz in the Bundesliga, who hasn't shown his worth as of yet, should not get the nod over Mignolet in the form he's in. That's all I'm saying.

    Ings does have pace, more than Firmino, that's for sure.
    I'm again not saying he's one of the fastest players in the league, but if he has a step on the defender, they won't catch him. Firmino gets in behind and is caught within a few strides, every time.

    As for Martial, I'm not saying he as a player has gotten worse, but he isn't performing like a big signing should. It's not like Mourinho is asking him to play full back, or defensive midfield. He's asking him to play out wide where players like Ronaldo, Messi, and Bale thrive. If you've got pace and technique, why can't you play out wide...?
    This is true.

    Now obviously he might have lost some pace to the injuries.

    However pre injury he was quick. Not lightning but certainly quick.

    If Firmino is say a 6/10 for pace. I'd certainly judge Ings as say a 7.5/10 in that department.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elphenomeno View Post
    Does anyone disagree that those positions are basically just first team upgrades of Sakho, Moreno, Lucas, Markovic and Sturridge?
    Upgrade on Sturridge....not so sure.

    not sure Liverpool can afford to buy a striker as talented as Sturridge. An upgrade in terms of availability? Certainly.

    In an ideal world if we could keep Studge and still sign another forward, that'd be great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    I have a feeling we're not getting any one of them.
    I think we may get Keita, have a really good feeling about him.

    van Djik I fancy will join City.

    The other three.....don't even believe they are targets tbh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I don't see us spending huge either unless FSG have said there's more where that came from. Seems unlikely but who knows? To be honest I think fans get hung on which position needs this or that first. We will argue over the 'priority' but if you think about it logically it's not that important.

    Say you sign Van Dijk, Brandt, Mbappe, Sessgnon, Goretzka (for arguments sake) and we sign 3 this summer and 2 next summer. Would it matter which ones came in which summer in 12 months time? Hardly. We need to respect the market and not always focus on position.

    Say Van Dijk goes to Chelsea, other top centre backs don't move and we can sign Maguire or Keane. We can't seriously believe they'd add more than Mbappe to the squad. Quality is what matters. Klopp may need 3 summers to create a working defence, attack, midfield and keeper but which orders he solves the issues in matter less than solving all the issues.
    I agree that they wouldn't be worth it in terms of an upgrade.

    However call it a hunch.

    But I believe the following things.

    1. Liverpool like van Djik but are well aware that another club is more likely.

    2. Liverpool hold no interest in Koulibaly, Keane etc. Smokescreens.

    3. Klopp has a target in mind that we haven't seen as yet.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I've had this feeling about the situation for some time. And as much as I like van Djik, I never really expected we'd get him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMacDW View Post
    I agree that they wouldn't be worth it in terms of an upgrade.

    However call it a hunch.

    But I believe the following things.

    1. Liverpool like van Djik but are well aware that another club is more likely.

    2. Liverpool hold no interest in Koulibaly, Keane etc. Smokescreens.

    3. Klopp has a target in mind that we haven't seen as yet.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I've had this feeling about the situation for some time. And as much as I like van Djik, I never really expected we'd get him.
    I don't know about all that. IT was reported we were after matip for months, and we got Matip. Same with Grujic.

    Tbf, Mane and Wij only broke like 2-3 days before we signed them, though.

    I trust Klopp to buy the right players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMacDW View Post
    I agree that they wouldn't be worth it in terms of an upgrade.

    However call it a hunch.

    But I believe the following things.

    1. Liverpool like van Djik but are well aware that another club is more likely.

    2. Liverpool hold no interest in Koulibaly, Keane etc. Smokescreens.

    3. Klopp has a target in mind that we haven't seen as yet.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I've had this feeling about the situation for some time. And as much as I like van Djik, I never really expected we'd get him.
    This I agree most with...Klopp's targets aren't all that well know, I don't think. Matip was sort of an easy one because the player himself was vocal about the situation and he was going on a free. I think players that move on a free can sort of announce their intentions sooner than someone with a buyout clause or an existing contract. It's just a simpler transaction, no need to smoke screen.

    The likelihood is, it will be a name we haven't spoken of much, if at all. I'm still hopeful the young German Jonathan Tah, might be Anfield bound. If he can fulfill his early potential, he's the "next Jerome Boateng" if you look at his size and athleticism. He and Matip would be a physically dominant pairing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by livermaina View Post
    Thing is Klopp (until now) doesn't seems to share defensive worries so much...-specialy having in mind he was defender and must be mad at some of our defenders brain farts.
    I just can't stomach 50 plus mil for a player like VVD -what has he done (on constant basis ) to warrant this price tag...?
    As for Ihenacho (although he is not world beater yet)if we decide to let Studge go,Ings and Origi are not better then him -unfortunately.
    If he is behind Aguero,Jesus,Sanches(eventualy) and De Bryne and we offer him first team football he may want to come
    That is my issue. If we want to better the likes of City on the pitch, how can we rely on their 4th or 5th choice striker? We need to go for quality. Yes, the price tag for VVD is getting ridiculous but that could be pure speculation. We need to test the waters early and if the asking price is too much, move on. In all instances we should have a set of options. IMO, our summer transfer targets should be composed of sets so that we can have options:

    LB - a set composed of Bernat, Digne, Ghoulam, Danilo, Hector, Rodriguez, etc.
    CB - a set that contains VVD, Laporte, Gimenez and Tah. If not, keep Sakho.
    Midfield - a set that includes Tolisso, Goretzka (unless the Byern story is true), Naby and Bakayoko.
    Wingers - from among Lemar,Felipe Anderson, D. Costa, Ascensio, Berardi, Brandt and Salah.
    CF - from a set that includes Lacazette, Morata and Belotti.

    I consider most of these upgrades or equivalent!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMacDW View Post
    I agree that they wouldn't be worth it in terms of an upgrade.

    However call it a hunch.

    But I believe the following things.

    1. Liverpool like van Djik but are well aware that another club is more likely.

    2. Liverpool hold no interest in Koulibaly, Keane etc. Smokescreens.

    3. Klopp has a target in mind that we haven't seen as yet.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I've had this feeling about the situation for some time. And as much as I like van Djik, I never really expected we'd get him.
    That's pretty much how I see it as well. I would even say that van Dijk is a smokescreen as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    That is my issue. If we want to better the likes of City on the pitch, how can we rely on their 4th or 5th choice striker? We need to go for quality. Yes, the price tag for VVD is getting ridiculous but that could be pure speculation. We need to test the waters early and if the asking price is too much, move on. In all instances we should have a set of options. IMO, our summer transfer targets should be composed of sets so that we can have options:

    LB - a set composed of Bernat, Digne, Ghoulam, Danilo, Hector, Rodriguez, etc.
    CB - a set that contains VVD, Laporte, Gimenez and Tah. If not, keep Sakho.
    Midfield - a set that includes Tolisso, Goretzka (unless the Byern story is true), Naby and Bakayoko.
    Wingers - from among Lemar,Felipe Anderson, D. Costa, Ascensio, Berardi, Brandt and Salah.
    CF - from a set that includes Lacazette, Morata and Belotti.

    I consider most of these upgrades or equivalent!
    Not a bad list to pick from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    No one was clamoring for Migs to come back. Just go look at the old threads. It's pretty obvious every wanted Migs gone. And then 3 months later he's our star keeper going forward. You have your opinion, I have mine. I'd rather stick with Karius, because I know what Migs is.

    Ings does not have pace. Are you serious? You never watched him at Burnley, and I know you haven't seen him here, because he hasn't played. He needs to move on.

    And yes, Martial is the business, but he's playing under an even more defensive manager in Jose, and he's playing out wide. He hasn't regressed as a player, that's for sure.
    It doesn't matter what anybody said or thought 6 months ago. Things change in football and very quickly and unless Mignolet has a serious downturn in form he's our number 1 going forward. It's certainly possible he could go back to his old ways but instead of worrying about that and calling for him to be dropped before it even happens why not just enjoy the fact we have someone in goal who's playing extremely well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFK6 View Post
    It doesn't matter what anybody said or thought 6 months ago. Things change in football and very quickly and unless Mignolet has a serious downturn in form he's our number 1 going forward. It's certainly possible he could go back to his old ways but instead of worrying about that and calling for him to be dropped before it even happens why not just enjoy the fact we have someone in goal who's playing extremely well.
    Mignolet is fine if he keeps playing the way he currently is. He seems more decisive when coming for the ball, which really improved his command of the goal area. His distribution also has significantly improved. Coming of the line to sweep up is better than before as well. A good shot stopper he always was anyway. So what's not to like these days? And I think he could even improve more. He deserves his spot at the moment and unless he regresses back, there is no way he should lose it.
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    http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/medi...ft-back-target

    That together with the rumoured Robertson signing and a possible move for Lacazette would be a decent summer window.

    CB - van Dijk
    LB - Robertson, Sessegnon
    CM - Keita
    WG - Salah
    ST - Lacazette
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/medi...ft-back-target

    That together with the rumoured Robertson signing and a possible move for Lacazette would be a decent summer window.

    CB - van Dijk
    LB - Robertson, Sessegnon
    CM - Keita
    WG - Salah
    ST - Lacazette
    I can live with that but my ideal transfer window this summer would be:
    CB - van Dijk
    LB - Bernat, Sessegnon
    CM - Tolisso
    WG - Lemar or F. Anderson
    ST - Lacazette
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    I can live with that but my ideal transfer window this summer would be:
    CB - van Dijk
    LB - Bernat, Sessegnon
    CM - Tolisso
    WG - Lemar or F. Anderson
    ST - Lacazette
    Wouldn't mind those at all, especially Bernat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    Wouldn't mind those at all, especially Bernat.
    Yes, his vision, self confidence, passing and work-rate would fit us well and improves this team immensely. Tolisso would make our midfield impregnable. If we get these players we can field a mouth-watering 4-2-3-1 that would destroy most teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFK6 View Post
    It doesn't matter what anybody said or thought 6 months ago. Things change in football and very quickly and unless Mignolet has a serious downturn in form he's our number 1 going forward. It's certainly possible he could go back to his old ways but instead of worrying about that and calling for him to be dropped before it even happens why not just enjoy the fact we have someone in goal who's playing extremely well.
    Just to use your quote "it doesn't matter what anybody said or thought 6 months ago, things change in football very quickly" Er, aren't you using what Karius did or didn't do 6 months ago against him?? What of Karius was in the team and actually saved the shots Migs saw go past him huh? Could we be top of the league now, possibly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    Yes, his vision, self confidence, passing and work-rate would fit us well and improves this team immensely. Tolisso would make our midfield impregnable. If we get these players we can field a mouth-watering 4-2-3-1 that would destroy most teams.
    Who would be in the 2 and in the 3?
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    Who would be in the 2 and in the 3?
    If everyone is fit, I feel our starting 11 in the 2 & 3 should be: Tolisso-Henderson with Cout-Firmino-Mane infront of them. That leaves us with a rotation/freshening possibility with Can, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Lemar and Grujic to cope with 4 competitions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    If everyone is fit, I feel our starting 11 in the 2 & 3 should be: Tolisso-Henderson with Cout-Firmino-Mane infront of them. That leaves us with a rotation/freshening possibility with Can, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Lemar and Grujic to cope with 4 competitions.
    That's surely some great midfield and attacking options.
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    Ings has pace? No he doesnt.. when have you EVER seen the opposition defence taken apart by Ings searing "pace"


    Dont know why theres a few people on here going on like hes some speed merchant when he isnt and never was.


    Hes got decent pace but the idea that pace is one of his main attributes is nonsense. With the mileage damage sturridge has incurred he is still probably faster than him ...maybe..

    Ings is a good player but at his best no way is he as better or as good as mane firmz or Couts so i dont know where he fits in.

    Hes a good player but we need better than what we already have..filling the team out or giving chances to players that clearly are not better than what we have is time wasting which we cannot afford to do.

    Granted hes been injured alot but its not like hes hiding some secret abilities that we havent seen yet as a few people on here seem to suggest by saying we have not seen enough of him yet to decide.

    If hes happy as 4th choice cool but if anyone is seriously thinking of giving him playing time to see if hes a starter as if hes on equal level with of our usual front 3 then they are having a laugh.

    Plus those 2 hardcore injuries hes had will affect him like sturridge and probably reduce the "decent" pace he had to begin with
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    As many have said earlier...enough of the filling out the squad with players barely equal to what was already there to "add depth" . Just go out and buy better than what you have in your starting 11 thus demoting the starting 11 out of the team forcing them to have to improve their game even higher just to stand a chance to play.

    Thats the true way to improve the squad. If we cant get better than what we have in each position then dont buy at all just use the youth players.

    Tired of filling out the squad by buying liddls level quality just to fill out the squad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertojones View Post
    Just to use your quote "it doesn't matter what anybody said or thought 6 months ago, things change in football very quickly" Er, aren't you using what Karius did or didn't do 6 months ago against him?? What of Karius was in the team and actually saved the shots Migs saw go past him huh? Could we be top of the league now, possibly.
    It's like talking to a 4 year old, it really is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMacDW View Post
    Upgrade on Sturridge....not so sure.

    not sure Liverpool can afford to buy a striker as talented as Sturridge. An upgrade in terms of availability? Certainly.

    In an ideal world if we could keep Studge and still sign another forward, that'd be great.
    It all depends on what you consider an upgrade is.
    If we can buy a player as good at scoring as Sturridge, but can press and stay fit... To me, that's an upgrade.
    However, there's a chance that Sturridge could stay now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elphenomeno View Post
    It all depends on what you consider an upgrade is.
    If we can buy a player as good at scoring as Sturridge, but can press and stay fit... To me, that's an upgrade.
    However, there's a chance that Sturridge could stay now.
    If we get a striker that can stay fit and play the pressing game, he's already an upgrade on Sturridge, even if he isn't quite as good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    If we get a striker that can stay fit and play the pressing game, he's already an upgrade on Sturridge, even if he isn't quite as good.
    Aye, a fit and healthy DS is borderline world class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    If we get a striker that can stay fit and play the pressing game, he's already an upgrade on Sturridge, even if he isn't quite as good.
    That's kind of worth pointing out isn't it, all these strikers linked, we need a guy like Lewandowski and Firmino. A player who can press from the front better than Sturridge and score more goals than Firmino.
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