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Thread: Daniel Sturridge 16/17 discussion thread - Part 2

  1. #331  
    MishMasch is offline First team regular
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    No question about his talent - that's always been there. And that level of talent will result in goals.

    The solution is to bring in a player with striking talent who's not always injured.
    sad truth but there it is
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  2. #332  
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    Daniel is a definite transfer option for LFC until you see him playing. Then you think wow - I can't let a rival get this guy or - I should keep him in the squad he is a natural finisher!

    At 27 we can not talk of talent anymore but his stats - goal scoring ratio he is impressive, appearances over the last few years he is a donkey! What do you do with this type?

    Take a gamble on another year and risk his value decreasing by more than 50% in order to pay for similar talent now which is going to cost you around 50mil. It makes business sense to keep him and use the diff on another striker.

    Anyone knows whats Ings situation like?
    Last edited by Nevinn; 16-5-17 at 14:03.
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  3. #333  
    +Shriekback+ is online now Academy prospect
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    I say sell him for 20 million.

    Its such a damn shame that a great forward like Sturridge has got these injury problems, and you look at so many donkey strikers in the league who stay injury free.
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  4. #334  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shriekback View Post
    I say sell him for 20 million.

    Its such a damn shame that a great forward like Sturridge has got these injury problems, and you look at so many donkey strikers in the league who stay injury free.
    That would be a mistake. Either sell him for more if we are, or keep in the squad because clearly he can produce.

    Do people realize that he was healthy and available for 70% of Liverpools games this season? Not bad for a 'never fit striker'.
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  5. #335  
    MishMasch is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    That would be a mistake. Either sell him for more if we are, or keep in the squad because clearly he can produce.

    Do people realize that he was healthy and available for 70% of Liverpools games this season? Not bad for a 'never fit striker'.
    Saw that quote from Pearce at the Echo earlier too. Problem with Danny is that when you play him regularly he picks up knocks and injuries, then you have a few games back where he's finding form and sharpness again - it's that cycle of inconsistency that's the problem. Personally I think if he'd have been used more, we'd have seen more injuries as has been the case before. I think Pearce is being cute with the word 'fit' rather than available
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  6. #336  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    Saw that quote from Pearce at the Echo earlier too. Problem with Danny is that when you play him regularly he picks up knocks and injuries, then you have a few games back where he's finding form and sharpness again - it's that cycle of inconsistency that's the problem. Personally I think if he'd have been used more, we'd have seen more injuries as has been the case before. I think Pearce is being cute with the word 'fit' rather than available
    If memory serves over the years, he never needs 'a few games to get back' because he usually found the back of the net.

    I do agree that he picks up knocks, but to not play him out of fear is beyond me. Clearly we can play with or without him, and depending on the team and the other players available, I feel the Klopp can use Danny to help us next season in the CL or EL or cups or league. We'll have plenty of games and we need to be able to have multiple layers of attack.

    Selling would be not be in our best interest, imo.
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  7. #337  
    MishMasch is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    If memory serves over the years, he never needs 'a few games to get back' because he usually found the back of the net.

    I do agree that he picks up knocks, but to not play him out of fear is beyond me. Clearly we can play with or without him, and depending on the team and the other players available, I feel the Klopp can use Danny to help us next season in the CL or EL or cups or league. We'll have plenty of games and we need to be able to have multiple layers of attack.

    Selling would be not be in our best interest, imo.
    I don't think Klopp will build an attack around him and I doubt he'd settle for a regular place on the bench - but perhaps it'll come down to what type of clubs show interest in him.

    I think if we bought a striker in who was high quality, fast and scored then the need for Danny would drop off
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  8. #338  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    I don't think Klopp will build an attack around him and I doubt he'd settle for a regular place on the bench - but perhaps it'll come down to what type of clubs show interest in him.

    I think if we bought a striker in who was high quality, fast and scored then the need for Danny would drop off
    I agree with everything here. And I also think that regardless of what we do with Sturridge, we should look to bring in a top quality striker. I feel Ings needs to be moved on, Origi is going through his sophomore slump, and you're right, we can't build everything around Sturridge.

    Not sure if Luan is the answer, but I'd much rather have Sturridge in the squad than the fee he'd command if he left.
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  9. #339  
    Daymo68 is online now One Post At A Time
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    If memory serves over the years, he never needs 'a few games to get back' because he usually found the back of the net.

    I do agree that he picks up knocks, but to not play him out of fear is beyond me. Clearly we can play with or without him, and depending on the team and the other players available, I feel the Klopp can use Danny to help us next season in the CL or EL or cups or league. We'll have plenty of games and we need to be able to have multiple layers of attack.

    Selling would be not be in our best interest, imo.
    He will be sold and it is in our best interest as long as we buy another striker of high quality.

    Daniel cannot be trusted to be fit and we will use his funds towards players that have a better chance of working regularly in Klopps system.

    Big shame as he is undoubtedly quality but the last 3 seasons have not been good enough fitness wise and we can't afford that luxury 120k a week.
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  10. #340  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daymo68 View Post
    He will be sold and it is in our best interest as long as we buy another striker of high quality.

    Daniel cannot be trusted to be fit and we will use his funds towards players that have a better chance of working regularly in Klopps system.

    Big shame as he is undoubtedly quality but the last 3 seasons have not been good enough fitness wise and we can't afford that luxury 120k a week.
    Why do we need to sell to buy?

    I'd rather have a striker who can get us points than 20M in the bank.

    Danny was fit for almost 3/4ths of our games this year. That is a pretty good return for someone 'who can't be trusted to be fit.'
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  11. #341  
    MishMasch is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    Why do we need to sell to buy?

    I'd rather have a striker who can get us points than 20M in the bank.

    Danny was fit for almost 3/4ths of our games this year. That is a pretty good return for someone 'who can't be trusted to be fit.'
    Most of the big spending talk from the papers has been caveated that it includes a big chunk of sales. Moreno, Markovic, Sakho, Sturridge - that'll most likely make up the majority of a transfer kitty. We've traditionally spent about 30m net in the window - extra tv money and CL might push tnat up but honestly if we spent more than 50-60m net I'd be really surprised. And decent signings are gonna be in that 30-40m mark quite possibly.

    So sell to buy isn't such a crazy idea
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  12. #342  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    Most of the big spending talk from the papers has been caveated that it includes a big chunk of sales. Moreno, Markovic, Sakho, Sturridge - that'll most likely make up the majority of a transfer kitty. We've traditionally spent about 30m net in the window - extra tv money and CL might push tnat up but honestly if we spent more than 50-60m net I'd be really surprised. And decent signings are gonna be in that 30-40m mark quite possibly.

    So sell to buy isn't such a crazy idea
    I'm not so sure I'd buy into those rumors. I think it's more paper gossip and speculation than actual info.

    We had a positive net spend in the summer, and no spend in Jan. There will be funds there for Klopp, that is for sure.

    Plus, if you wanted to include sales, then Moreno (10) Markovic (10) Sakho (30) and then a handful of others for another 15M or so, that's 50-70M right there.

    But who knows.
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  13. #343  
    MishMasch is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    I'm not so sure I'd buy into those rumors. I think it's more paper gossip and speculation than actual info.

    We had a positive net spend in the summer, and no spend in Jan. There will be funds there for Klopp, that is for sure.

    Plus, if you wanted to include sales, then Moreno (10) Markovic (10) Sakho (30) and then a handful of others for another 15M or so, that's 50-70M right there.

    But who knows.
    Id like to see us go big in the summer of course - but I'm wary of big talk early on slowly fading away. The Echo ran a story saying we might spend 200m, then a few weeks later it's 120/130m inc sales - all feels a bit familiar...

    If we could bring in a top end striker plus all the other players AND keep Danny, then brilliant. I suspect however that the 20-30m we'd want for him has likely already been earmarked
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  14. #344  
    raybarnes is offline Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeak View Post
    To be fair your predictions are always wrong, so on that basis I'm sure we'll be fine.
    I hope Danny stays here
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  15. #345  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    Id like to see us go big in the summer of course - but I'm wary of big talk early on slowly fading away. The Echo ran a story saying we might spend 200m, then a few weeks later it's 120/130m inc sales - all feels a bit familiar...

    If we could bring in a top end striker plus all the other players AND keep Danny, then brilliant. I suspect however that the 20-30m we'd want for him has likely already been earmarked
    Agree that it's the same story each summer. WAR CHEST blah blah...

    I don't care on the fees or the players (as much) with Klopp because I feel he understands what he wants and will get that player regardless of the name/value.
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  16. #346  
    raybarnes is offline Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    Agree that it's the same story each summer. WAR CHEST blah blah...

    I don't care on the fees or the players (as much) with Klopp because I feel he understands what he wants and will get that player regardless of the name/value.
    Lets hope so
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    The problem we have is that Sturridge is the only quality centre forward we have. Its a miracle we are potentially in the top 4 when we have had to use Origi and Firmino as central strikers for most of the season when apart form an 8 week period when Firmino played well both have fallen well short of the mark
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  18. #348  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    Most of the big spending talk from the papers has been caveated that it includes a big chunk of sales. Moreno, Markovic, Sakho, Sturridge - that'll most likely make up the majority of a transfer kitty. We've traditionally spent about 30m net in the window - extra tv money and CL might push tnat up but honestly if we spent more than 50-60m net I'd be really surprised. And decent signings are gonna be in that 30-40m mark quite possibly.

    So sell to buy isn't such a crazy idea
    Some on here have been reporting a 100m transfer budget with any money from sales being made available.

    Of course who knows whether any sources are reliable, I'd suspect not given we can't even be sure we will be in the CL next season so might be a bit early for budgeting, but also did any source specify sales money goes on top of the pot? I find it hard to believe, 100m to spend maybe but I'd expect that to be based on some money coming in from sales. Not least since people bang on about "net spend" and how little we spend, well FSG, but they're suddenly lavishing the manager with funds.

    I suspect it was more media speculation based on a report we'd sign VVD for 50m, estimating we'd have to spend another 30m on an attacker and maybe 20m on a DM or something. If we did a similar exercise, many do with names but not so much numbers, I bet we'd come up with 150m+ as the transfer budget.

    And let's not forget the theory Klopp won't settle for anything but his primary targets, well along those lines at least. I can't imagine he'll just throw money around recklessly so is there any guarantee even with a big war chest that he can get (all) the players he wants..........?!?!? So many speculated that is why he bought no one in January (twice)

    Time will tell of course, a couple of good 25m+ signings would be good, would rather dodge a 50m layout on a CB thanks, prefer quality at an affordable price. So many are creaming their pants over the possibility of selling Sakho for ever increasing sums, well we rank Matip, apparently Sakho is so good we don't want to keep him but cash in on his rising stock, and Lovren has signed a new contract (I think I read) 3 CBs, do we need VVD? Or are we just assuming some club will bend over to buy Sakho at whatever price we might dictate? There were no buyers in January, and a loan is a whole heap different to a signing in several ways (not least the wages paid by situation)
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    Why do we need to sell to buy?

    I'd rather have a striker who can get us points than 20M in the bank.

    Danny was fit for almost 3/4ths of our games this year. That is a pretty good return for someone 'who can't be trusted to be fit.'
    I believe he has started only about 23 times in 3years so they pointed out on the TV. That's no good for us, plus he doesn't fit in with Klopps style. Pity if he were not injury prone and played in the right team he can get you over 20 goals a season.
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  20. #350  
    Mouldiogs is online now Wants a little line under his title
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    I believe he has started only about 23 times in 3years so they pointed out on the TV. That's no good for us, plus he doesn't fit in with Klopps style. Pity if he were not injury prone and played in the right team he can get you over 20 goals a season.
    Still great to have him back on pitch and scoring helping team into CL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Still great to have him back on pitch and scoring helping team into CL
    Agree. I believe Klopp and the medical team have managed him sensibly. He more or less played 90 minutes for the first time, since I don't know how long, against West Ham.
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  22. #352  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    I believe he has started only about 23 times in 3years so they pointed out on the TV. That's no good for us, plus he doesn't fit in with Klopps style. Pity if he were not injury prone and played in the right team he can get you over 20 goals a season.
    He doesn't decide when he starts. That's the managers decisions. He's been an used sub in 1/4 of the games we've played this year, and a sub in another 9.

    What 'style' does he not fit in, and does Origi fit in better? Sure looked the part last Sunday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    He doesn't decide when he starts. That's the managers decisions. He's been an used sub in 1/4 of the games we've played this year, and a sub in another 9.

    What 'style' does he not fit in, and does Origi fit in better? Sure looked the part last Sunday.
    Why else is he sitting on the bench?

    This season surely shows that the bigger issue around Dan now is not so much his fitness, but the fact that even when fit Klopp sees him as no better than 3rd choice.

    He could have played more, arguably should have played more, but Klopp didn't/doesn't fancy him.

    Unless the fairly implausible sounding comment from Klopp that this was the first time since January he was fit to start a game was actually true. In which case the problem is still that he can't stay fit.
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  24. #354  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Why else is he sitting on the bench?

    This season surely shows that the bigger issue around Dan now is not so much his fitness, but the fact that even when fit Klopp sees him as no better than 3rd choice.

    He could have played more, arguably should have played more, but Klopp didn't/doesn't fancy him.

    Unless the fairly implausible sounding comment from Klopp that this was the first time since January he was fit to start a game was actually true. In which case the problem is still that he can't stay fit.
    And we've drawn and lost games to teams in the bottom 15. I'd say that Klopp being to predictable and rigid in his ideas has cost us points. Danny might not fit in his 'style' for teams that come to play football, but Danny can create and get goals against teams who park the bus.

    So maybe we should keep him, and play him when teams sit deep. He has the ability and skill to create a yard and a chance on goal. Something very few players can do.
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  25. #355  
    raybarnes is offline Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Posters keep saying that Danny does not fit into Mr Klopps style but Danny has been injured during Mr Klopps time here he is fit now and scored on his first game back ii want him starting Sunday if so he will score.
    Danny's style is scoring goals
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  26. #356  
    MishMasch is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    Posters keep saying that Danny does not fit into Mr Klopps style but Danny has been injured during Mr Klopps time here he is fit now and scored on his first game back ii want him starting Sunday if so he will score.
    Danny's style is scoring goals
    He's been used a bit this season Ray - Firmino then became his first choice in the centre of a 4-3-3, i don't think because of fitness, because of preference

    We can adapt to suit Danny, but i don't think Klopp's preferred style fits him

    He went a lot of games without scoring
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  27. #357  
    raybarnes is offline Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    He's been used a bit this season Ray - Firmino then became his first choice in the centre of a 4-3-3, i don't think because of fitness, because of preference

    We can adapt to suit Danny, but i don't think Klopp's preferred style fits him

    He went a lot of games without scoring
    If Mr Klopp letd him go then he believes Danny is not to his liking if he keeps him he could save us a bundle of cash we'll soon find out.
    A fit Danny is a quality player
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  28. #358  
    SouthernRob is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    Posters keep saying that Danny does not fit into Mr Klopps style but Danny has been injured during Mr Klopps time here he is fit now and scored on his first game back ii want him starting Sunday if so he will score.
    Danny's style is scoring goals
    If Klopp's style worked every time then maybe they have a point; however it hasn't, and Klopp has had to adapt, grinding out results, scoring on occasion when we haven't created many chances - there's not many better than Sturridge at that when fit
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  29. #359  
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    Posters keep saying that Danny does not fit into Mr Klopps style but Danny has been injured during Mr Klopps time here he is fit now and scored on his first game back ii want him starting Sunday if so he will score.
    Danny's style is scoring goals
    He's been on the bench TWENTY times this season, coming off it 13 times (scoring once), that's hardly likely to have been the case had he been unfit and injured all season. That doesn't even count his starts, all in all he's been in the squad whether starting, stayed on the bench or came off it TWENTY SIX times out of 37 games so basically completely missed only ELEVEN.

    I wonder sometimes on these boards if people just decide to ignore any actual facts there are out there and trot out what they want to believe. He would not be on the bench or playing some part in a game if deemed unfit, maybe the odd bench appearance here and there yes, but not TWENTY times.



    Whether or not the Sakho situation further demonstrates Klopp doesn't tolerate or accept (however you want to word it) a lack of fitness is down to whether you believe the reason mooted for him being loaned out. Not sure of the logic which is why I am not declaring it as further evidence since to gain fitness through playing any club loaning him would have to play him unless he's admitting palace's training facilities and fitness regime are better than our's............



    Whether or not Sturridge can fit into Klopp's preferred system is for speculation, personally I believe he stumbled onto a system that worked and that left no room for Sturridge or Origi. Further evidence, if needed, is that Sturridge after missing the first league game of the season played in 7 league games in a row, he even started 4 of them which might indicate Klopp gave him a go and decided thereafter to use others more and him more sparingly.....

    Sturridge (Premier League 16/17)

    Games 01-08 : 0 goals in 7 apps (4 starts, 3 apps as sub)
    Games 09-16 : 0 goals in 2 apps (2 apps as sub, 2 unused sub, missed 4 in a row thereafter)
    Games 17-37 : 3 goals in 10 apps (2 starts, 8 apps as sub, 5 as unused sub, missed 5 in a row fairly much in the middle)

    So starts the season with a few starts, no goals and apart from missing the opener was available for all 8 so starts 25% and apps 88%, then goes through a spell of 8 games of which granted he missed half at the end, but was sub twice and unused sub twice so just taking the 4 he could have played makes apps 50%. And in the last 21 league games he's featured in nearly half, missed a handful of games, but 8 out of his 10 apps were as sub so again hardly indications his lack of starts is down to injury or fitness. His apps across that spell hit 48% but still only 10% starts although if you take out the 6 games he missed to make it out of 15 he manages 13% starts and 67% apps.

    Mitigating circumstances do surround his starts in recent games, the absence of Mane and last game Firmino. The number of games Firmino, Mane and Sturridge have all started in the league this season count THREE, not too surprising given just six starts for Sturridge, but to put it in context Mane and Firmino have started 12 games together where Sturridge was on the bench ie that's 3 times all three have started out of a possible 15 games.
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    Agree. I believe Klopp and the medical team have managed him sensibly.
    Hard to say if that is true, in fact almost impossible. We don't know if he had started more or come on more whether or not he'd have gotten injured more, but frankly wrapping him in bubblewrap and sticking him on the bench most of the time is rather pointless and poor use of an asset that is supposed to be playing football and indeed a goalscorer.

    However, the management of his fitness is one factor I didn't cite in my previous post about his starting, in no small part because I didn't think of it to include (can't think of everything, not without making my posts even longer!). Not sure how well they can be managing someone when Klopp tends to bring subs on so late he'd have to come on as sub 4-5 times in a row to play anything like 90 minutes. And if that's sensible management I'm thinking the word's meaning must have changed like so many seem to have with the younger generations and yank TV influencing the language
    Last edited by TheDarknessIsCalling; 20-5-17 at 10:17.
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