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Thread: FSG - Good, Bad or Indifferent? - roll it again Colette

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    Last edited by GrottonRed; 21-4-17 at 18:20. Reason: no more personal stuff please
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Very tight ones though, only interested in making more.
    Imagine that, millionaires wanting to make more money, who'd of thought that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed View Post
    I ask this in every FSG thread, apart from the benevolent billionaires, which three PL owners would you prefer to have?
    Sheik Mansour or Roman
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  4. #94  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Sheik Mansour or Roman
    The question was apart from those 2.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Sheik Mansour or Roman
    I dunno mate. Dodgy Russian or a member of the Arab elite and their laundry list of human rights violations? Having said that, I doubt there are too many ethical billionaire types who are thoroughly nice chaps and made their fortunes whilst smelling of roses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Topper- View Post
    I dunno mate. Dodgy Russian or a member of the Arab elite and their laundry list of human rights violations? Having said that, I doubt there are too many ethical billionaire types who are thoroughly nice chaps and made their fortunes whilst smelling of roses.
    Roman is not Dodgy and Sheik Mansour to the best of my knowledge has no human rights violations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    The question was apart from those 2.
    Alisha Usmanov.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Roman is not Dodgy and Sheik Mansour to the best of my knowledge has no human rights violations.
    Roman not dodgy? Dunno bout that!

    And the Sheiks aren't exactly champions of the people. Lot of blood in the oil money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Alisha Usmanov.
    That's a surprising choice. What is it you like about him? Arsenal have massive unspent resources, they could be doing much more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed View Post
    I ask this in every FSG thread, apart from the benevolent billionaires, which three PL owners would you prefer to have?
    Something like this, you mean

    Investment: 8/10
    Popularity: 5/10
    Enthusiasm: 7/10
    Avoiding controversy: 5/10
    Communication: 3/10

    FSG have done well off the field, the renovated main stand, the hiring of Klopp have helped their image
    However, fansí patience had been tested by the Americanís devotion to Moneyball and patchy (at best) record in the transfer market.
    Ticket price protests and the Annie Road stand remain a thorn in their side....
    Likewise the lack of success on the pitch......
    One top 4 finish in 7 seasons, a constant reminder at their failure to establish LFC back to the top of English football
    That is why their communication is low, coz no one knows what they want to achieve
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Something like this, you mean

    Investment: 8/10
    Popularity: 5/10
    Enthusiasm: 7/10
    Avoiding controversy: 5/10
    Communication: 3/10

    FSG have done well off the field, the renovated main stand, the hiring of Klopp have helped their image
    However, fansí patience had been tested by the Americanís devotion to Moneyball and patchy (at best) record in the transfer market.
    Ticket price protests and the Annie Road stand remain a thorn in their side....
    Likewise the lack of success on the pitch......
    One top 4 finish in 7 seasons, a constant reminder at their failure to establish LFC back to the top of English football
    That is why their communication is low, coz no one knows what they want to achieve
    Communication, 3? Surely the Jen Chang saga merits at least a 5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Something like this, you mean

    Investment: 8/10
    Popularity: 5/10
    Enthusiasm: 7/10
    Avoiding controversy: 5/10
    Communication: 3/10

    FSG have done well off the field, the renovated main stand, the hiring of Klopp have helped their image
    However, fans’ patience had been tested by the American’s devotion to Moneyball and patchy (at best) record in the transfer market.
    Ticket price protests and the Annie Road stand remain a thorn in their side....
    Likewise the lack of success on the pitch......
    One top 4 finish in 7 seasons, a constant reminder at their failure to establish LFC back to the top of English football
    That is why their communication is low, coz no one knows what they want to achieve
    No, nothing like that, just the names of 3 better owners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    No, nothing like that, just the names of 3 better owners.
    Lewis at Spurs
    Maxim Demin at Bournemouth
    Katharina Liebherr at Southampton
    Peter Coates at Stoke
    The Morgan family at Swansea
    Bill Kenwright at Everton - prior to selling up....

    All have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Lewis at Spurs
    Maxim Demin at Bournemouth
    Katharina Liebherr at Southampton
    Peter Coates at Stoke
    The Morgan family at Swansea
    Bill Kenwright at Everton - prior to selling up....

    All have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Lewis at Spurs
    Maxim Demin at Bournemouth
    Katharina Liebherr at Southampton
    Peter Coates at Stoke
    The Morgan family at Swansea
    Bill Kenwright at Everton - prior to selling up....

    All have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG
    Riiiiiiight.
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  16. #106  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Lewis at Spurs
    Maxim Demin at Bournemouth
    Katharina Liebherr at Southampton
    Peter Coates at Stoke
    The Morgan family at Swansea
    Bill Kenwright at Everton - prior to selling up....

    All have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG
    Ha Ha Ha...
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Ha Ha Ha...
    You've obviously never seen Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Doesn't get any more ambitious than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    You've obviously never seen Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Doesn't get any more ambitious than that.
    Any dream will do...

    ANY dream? Pah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Something like this, you mean

    Investment: 8/10
    Popularity: 5/10
    Enthusiasm: 7/10
    Avoiding controversy: 5/10
    Communication: 3/10

    FSG have done well off the field, the renovated main stand, the hiring of Klopp have helped their image
    However, fans’ patience had been tested by the American’s devotion to Moneyball and patchy (at best) record in the transfer market.
    Ticket price protests and the Annie Road stand remain a thorn in their side....
    Likewise the lack of success on the pitch......
    One top 4 finish in 7 seasons, a constant reminder at their failure to establish LFC back to the top of English football
    That is why their communication is low, coz no one knows what they want to achieve
    The most ridiculous myth in football. Well, maybe only topped by the ridiculous idea that we were trying to buy younger players for their resale value once developed.
    Last edited by theamerican00; 22-4-17 at 04:45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canookiewookie View Post
    Riiiiiiight.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Ha Ha Ha...
    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    You've obviously never seen Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Doesn't get any more ambitious than that.
    Lewis and Spurs speak for themselves
    Bournemouth, nearly out of existence to the premier league - all FSG get is splinters everytime they scratch their heads
    Southampton must doing something better, we keep buying their players
    Coates and Kenwright remind me of the Moores era
    Swansea had the plan that made FSG want their manager

    So, Like I said - all showed more than FSG
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  21. #111  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Ha Ha Ha...
    I find it funny that those named are cited as "have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG" yet the only CLUB there that arguably has higher ambitions than LFC is spudz. The others might like to be right up there, but they are never going to back up any ambitions with ££££ - basically spending within their means.

    You could argue Leeds showed ambition, just spent poorly and mortgaged their future on top four finishes the manager/team couldn't deliver. How ambitious are a lot of the takeover owners around? If they aren't mega rich like at chelski, citeh, or able to tap into the club's size established in the case of the mancs, who has gone out and been bold enough in ambition, bold enough to take a gamble..............?

    We'll see if palace are "ambitious" if/when they bid for Sakho, so many of these smaller clubs take much smaller gambles. We diddled Bournemouth it would seem for £15m (Ibe), but given the money the clubs got this season that's barely much of a gamble of the club's future. Some of the clubs make daring ventures into the transfer market, bold moves for players who were once highly rated, but so many of the clubs just pick up scraps off top clubs and look around for bargains knowing what they spend will likely be mostly recouped, they may even be able to sell for a large amount, but if we're talking "ambitious" then surely any "selling club" has to be excluded and how many of them resist and hang on to their best players?!?

    Surely if they had "ambition" they'd make more progress, only the few that come up make much in the way of progress (from avoiding relegation to midtable or some bashes at top 7-10) but that's establishing yourself, almost a rite of passage for clubs coming up. bitters have for a long time looked at top 8-10 as their level with any ventures into Europe a bonus, maintain steady finances and sell star players at a premium while looking to bring in the next bargain that will sustain that. They haven't moved from that for a long time, not since they ran risks of relegation, yet what is being sold as "ambition" (on the part of the owner) is minimum expectation here.

    I'm sure FSG's "ambition" is not to remain where we are/were, and they've backed the manager with money enough over the past few years to at least challenge for top 4, and the absurd thread "should we be anywhere near top 4" can readily be exposed by showing our finishes in the last few seasons by points behind 4th :

    16/17 : (currently in top 4 after 33 games)
    15/16 : 6 points off 4th
    14/15 : 8 points off 4th
    13/14 : -5 points off 4th (runners-up)
    12/13 : 12 points off 4th
    11/12 : 17 points off 4th
    10/11 : 10 points off 4th
    09/10 : 7 points off 4th

    Rafa was dispensed with in spite of his weakest season in terms of league finishes and points off 4th being in the same region as the best finishes we didn't finish in the top 4 - excluding this season as incomplete, 6 and 8 points off being the comparable ones to the 7 he finished behind in his last season.

    But the main point is if you count being within 6-8 points as being somewhere near a top 4 finish then it's been THREE seasons since we didn't achieve this much. Even 10 points off isn't a million miles, but perhaps we see the (non net) spending and question if we shouldn't be doing better, and not finishing in the top four as we often end up doing just makes it very negative - that and net spend warping an increasing number of people's judgement.



    Would I swap FSG for any other Premier League owners? In all honesty I'd say the owners at chelski, citeh and, maybe kneejerk to their last couple of seasons, spudz. I would not want the window people anywhere near here, 30m is close enough thank you, and Arsenal's have been too cautious or perhaps not demanded enough of Wenger in the transfer market if you blame him for what seems to conservative a signing approach for the seasons they spend/spent in the top 4. As for ron's list, not sure why he is producing a list of owners of whom only one should even be mentioned in the same kind of sentences/posts as FSG
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    I find it funny that those named are cited as "have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG" yet the only CLUB there that arguably has higher ambitions than LFC is spudz. The others might like to be right up there, but they are never going to back up any ambitions with ££££ - basically spending within their means.

    You could argue Leeds showed ambition, just spent poorly and mortgaged their future on top four finishes the manager/team couldn't deliver. How ambitious are a lot of the takeover owners around? If they aren't mega rich like at chelski, citeh, or able to tap into the club's size established in the case of the mancs, who has gone out and been bold enough in ambition, bold enough to take a gamble..............?

    We'll see if palace are "ambitious" if/when they bid for Sakho, so many of these smaller clubs take much smaller gambles. We diddled Bournemouth it would seem for £15m (Ibe), but given the money the clubs got this season that's barely much of a gamble of the club's future. Some of the clubs make daring ventures into the transfer market, bold moves for players who were once highly rated, but so many of the clubs just pick up scraps off top clubs and look around for bargains knowing what they spend will likely be mostly recouped, they may even be able to sell for a large amount, but if we're talking "ambitious" then surely any "selling club" has to be excluded and how many of them resist and hang on to their best players?!?

    Surely if they had "ambition" they'd make more progress, only the few that come up make much in the way of progress (from avoiding relegation to midtable or some bashes at top 7-10) but that's establishing yourself, almost a rite of passage for clubs coming up. bitters have for a long time looked at top 8-10 as their level with any ventures into Europe a bonus, maintain steady finances and sell star players at a premium while looking to bring in the next bargain that will sustain that. They haven't moved from that for a long time, not since they ran risks of relegation, yet what is being sold as "ambition" (on the part of the owner) is minimum expectation here.

    I'm sure FSG's "ambition" is not to remain where we are/were, and they've backed the manager with money enough over the past few years to at least challenge for top 4, and the absurd thread "should we be anywhere near top 4" can readily be exposed by showing our finishes in the last few seasons by points behind 4th :

    16/17 : (currently in top 4 after 33 games)
    15/16 : 6 points off 4th
    14/15 : 8 points off 4th
    13/14 : -5 points off 4th (runners-up)
    12/13 : 12 points off 4th
    11/12 : 17 points off 4th
    10/11 : 10 points off 4th
    09/10 : 7 points off 4th

    Rafa was dispensed with in spite of his weakest season in terms of league finishes and points off 4th being in the same region as the best finishes we didn't finish in the top 4 - excluding this season as incomplete, 6 and 8 points off being the comparable ones to the 7 he finished behind in his last season.

    But the main point is if you count being within 6-8 points as being somewhere near a top 4 finish then it's been THREE seasons since we didn't achieve this much. Even 10 points off isn't a million miles, but perhaps we see the (non net) spending and question if we shouldn't be doing better, and not finishing in the top four as we often end up doing just makes it very negative - that and net spend warping an increasing number of people's judgement.



    Would I swap FSG for any other Premier League owners? In all honesty I'd say the owners at chelski, citeh and, maybe kneejerk to their last couple of seasons, spudz. I would not want the window people anywhere near here, 30m is close enough thank you, and Arsenal's have been too cautious or perhaps not demanded enough of Wenger in the transfer market if you blame him for what seems to conservative a signing approach for the seasons they spend/spent in the top 4. As for ron's list, not sure why he is producing a list of owners of whom only one should even be mentioned in the same kind of sentences/posts as FSG
    Ambition is not current standing - ambition is past, present and future, a clear defined vision - thats why they have it and FSG don't
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    FSG have backed Klopp and he's said as much. He's said there is never an issue regarding asking the owners for money. He chose not to spend. If the reports are true, he's already identified his primary targets for the summer and has already been given the owners blessing to spend. How much he spends is the question rather than how much he has to spend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Ambition is not current standing - ambition is past, present and future, a clear defined vision - thats why they have it and FSG don't
    You honestly believe FSG have no ambition Mr Ron? I'm quite excited about their recent appointments - Klopp ofcourse and Peter Moore. The guy is really smart, loves Liverpool, has vision and knows how to implement a plan. In his goodbye message to EA he called his new appointment at LFC a 'calling' rather than a new job opportunity - I love that

    We're moving in a positive direction, everything is adding up nicely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterPool Stark View Post
    You honestly believe FSG have no ambition Mr Ron? I'm quite excited about their recent appointments - Klopp ofcourse and Peter Moore. The guy is really smart, loves Liverpool, has vision and knows how to implement a plan. In his goodbye message to EA he called his new appointment at LFC a 'calling' rather than a new job opportunity - I love that

    We're moving in a positive direction, everything is adding up nicely.
    Couldn't agree more.
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  26. #116  
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterPool Stark View Post
    You honestly believe FSG have no ambition Mr Ron? I'm quite excited about their recent appointments - Klopp ofcourse and Peter Moore. The guy is really smart, loves Liverpool, has vision and knows how to implement a plan. In his goodbye message to EA he called his new appointment at LFC a 'calling' rather than a new job opportunity - I love that

    We're moving in a positive direction, everything is adding up nicely.
    Agreed.

    This season was the dress rehearsal and whilst the others with the exception of Chelsea and spent vast sums and flopped. Klopp has kept his cards held tightly to his chest. This time around when his primary targets are available, he's going to flex his muscles. It could take just 3 players to turn Liverpool into winners. That's in the spine, centre half, central midfield and upfront.

    Everything else such as width and left back is peripheral. He doesn't need to spend huge in those areas. The majority of his spending should and I expect it to be, in those three key areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Lewis at Spurs
    Maxim Demin at Bournemouth
    Katharina Liebherr at Southampton
    Peter Coates at Stoke
    The Morgan family at Swansea
    Bill Kenwright at Everton - prior to selling up....

    All have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG
    I always doubted your knowledge on the game. But wow this post just cemented it!

    I actually burst out laughing! Unbelievable jeff!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PejiVanbasten View Post
    I always doubted your knowledge on the game. But wow this post just cemented it!

    I actually burst out laughing! Unbelievable jeff!
    I trust me over you and most on here - so what does that say about your lack of knowledge
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    I trust me over you and most on here - so what does that say about your lack of knowledge
    Have you ever asked an everton fan what they make of kenwright? Are you local?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Lewis at Spurs
    Maxim Demin at Bournemouth
    Katharina Liebherr at Southampton
    Peter Coates at Stoke
    The Morgan family at Swansea
    Bill Kenwright at Everton - prior to selling up....

    All have more ambition and enthusiasm than FSG
    Raybarnes and mrdilkington, do you agree with this post?

    Will be good to know your views on this.
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