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Thread: One trophy in 8 years and one CL finish, Is that good enough?

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    Why don't you disappear mate? If you don't like what I type don't respond. It's actually very simple.
    I'd rather call out stupidity when it's so apparent.
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  2. #32  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
    No divine right to win silverware.
    It's not about anybody giving you trophies. It's about making sure you create a situation at your club where winning trophies is unavoidable.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    I see how our fans have succumbed to accept what the club is today. I wont bother with this thread. Everything is hunky dory.
    Kinell

    So it was a sulky rant not an actual discussion thread
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  4. #34  
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    No, its not good enough, nowhere near good enough.

    Winning trophies was, and should be, what this club was all about. A winning mentality is needed to win trophies and that's where we have fallen most. Whilst the desire to win trophies has been somewhat diluted in recent years by the obsession with making CL, the two are not mutually exclusive.

    Every time in the past 20 years that we have picked up cup silverware and got close to winning the title, we have failed in subsequent seasons by a combination of selling our best players, not recruiting comparable replacements, and owners not backing the club's ambition. Happened under Houllier, Rafa, Kenny, Rodgers. The fear now is that it also may happen under Klopp.

    This summer is critical if we are to make real progress. The owners must back Klopp and rumour has it they are prepared to open the treasure chest, Klopp in turn must spend it, and spend it wisely. If either of these two sides of the equation do not materialise then we continue to stagnate.

    And for those seriously questioning Klopp at this juncture...be careful what you wish for, changing the manager anytime soon and starting all over again is most likely to prolong rather than cure the success famine.
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  5. #35  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Can posters please debate the issues without resorting to name calling and petty bickering?

    Cheers.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  6. #36  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    You seemed to have started a thread for discussion but aren't up for much detailed discussion

    You seriously revising history here? We were screwed a few years back under G&H, about to go under and it was quite well known that there was no queue of bidders for the club, hence the absolute relief and joy when FSG bought the club and G&H were finally ousted and we didn't go over the edge.

    Now a number of years on, it's crunch time with FSG, how seriously will they invest in player recruitment this summer, how much will they support Klopp? That's the key

    This is what I think fans need answered this summer, we have a world class manager with a world class profile, if he's backed then hopefully he can shift us on again next season as he has this season. We've improved no doubt under Klopp to my mind and he's done it with a threadbare squad so the next step is bulking up this team and with real quality.

    I also agree with most, he shouldn't spend funds on just any old player if he can't get his favoured targets, that has been the problem here before and under Rodgers we started to collect up deadwood again, I'm glad that is not being repeated.

    Also, in your post, you refer to the 8 years.....again this is a problem for me, fans judge that way but really for a manager its about isolating his time and work here, so for us yes its frustrating but we're not judging Klopp on 8 years so it would appear part of your frustration is misdirected (your lumping 8 years into the same post as Klopp refusing to spend, then FSG's part, all a bit mixed up frustration with no real point) and I don't think your quite viewing replies properly considering you started this thread
    No I am, I think that Edinburger fella or lady is trying to be funny. What am I missing here, I've exactly stated what has happened in the past? this isn't just about fsg, its about previous managers and now Klopp as well. As a whole its a mess and I'm getting tired of it tbh.

    I don't want a discussion of Gillet&Hicks and the club being administration 8 years ago. I have for the last 7 years thanked FSG for what they did however is that it? Do we just thank them every day?
    ?
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  7. #37  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Kinell

    So it was a sulky rant not an actual discussion thread
    If I'm being sulky then so be it. It's the way people become defensive over any criticism of our owners ambitions is what worries me.
    ?
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    No I am, I think that Edinburger fella or lady is trying to be funny. What am I missing here, I've exactly stated what has happened in the past? this isn't just about fsg, its about previous managers and now Klopp as well. As a whole its a mess and I'm getting tired of it tbh.

    I don't want a discussion of Gillet&Hicks and the club being administration 8 years ago. I have for the last 7 years thanked FSG for what they did however is that it? Do we just thank them every day?
    Well no and that's why I said in my post about this summer too, I think they've spent piles of money personally on transfers but sadly we bought a lot of crap pre-Klopp, but that is my point, why keep going back, you can't state 8 years, no 7 years etc so now under Klopp he is clearly doing things differently, is it different enough, will it bring success etc?

    I never thought he'd fix all our wrong's in a season and a half but if we do get top four, are in Europe, can attract a better calibre of player etc then surely progress is being made.

    As you say that has gone now but I think your feeling more distressed now after the result Sunday but if we do make it then we have clearly progressed and have a platform to push on in the summer. Either way, we'll see how far FSG are willing to go in supporting Klopp
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  9. #39  
    WirralRiddler is offline These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    If I'm being sulky then so be it. It's the way people become defensive over any criticism of our owners ambitions is what worries me.
    Its because people like yourself bang on and on about them not being good enough all the time, of course others are going to react if they disagree, especially when you start a thread on the subject.
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    TomHighwaysM16 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    No I am, I think that Edinburger fella or lady is trying to be funny. What am I missing here, I've exactly stated what has happened in the past? this isn't just about fsg, its about previous managers and now Klopp as well. As a whole its a mess and I'm getting tired of it tbh.

    I don't want a discussion of Gillet&Hicks and the club being administration 8 years ago. I have for the last 7 years thanked FSG for what they did however is that it? Do we just thank them every day?
    I agree on this. It's like they did this because they are some angels. They are good people, but they didn't buy Liverpool because of emotions.
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  11. #41  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    Its because people like yourself bang on and on about them not being good enough all the time, of course others are going to react if they disagree, especially when you start a thread on the subject.
    I haven't banged on I've been pretty balanced and even praised them but we need to do better a lot better. We can't continue to be where we are and pretend everything is okay. Why is it such a touchy subject and why do we have to be emotionally attached to them?
    ?
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  12. #42  
    TomHighwaysM16 is online now Academy prospect
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    We all know that when the oligarchs showed up two of the historically top clubs will stop being that. It seems lady luck has chosen us. Although, we have zilch excuses to be behind Spurs.
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    I also agree with (spider-neil ) We have previous recent history of wasting huge amounts of money on very very ordinary average players , and unfortunately with our total lack of any success it is extremely difficult to attract top players with proven quality ,
    Sad to say we are NO longer an attractive club to all these young so called super stars with agents driven by total greed and nothing to do with the footballing ability of the young guys ???? plus unfortunately the MEDIA has created this together with the Russian and Arab owners who are intent on buying success and trophies ???
    Our American owners, whilst rich ,do really not want to play the game with the big boys and are more than happy treading water as long as they are seen to be in it maybe for TAX reasons ??? . Success for Liverpool has been to finish in the top 8 of the league ???
    We even start the season before a ball is kicked saying "We need to finish Top 4 " it would appear we have fallen into a group of teams with the TOTAL lack of AMBITION
    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Correct...and I support Klopp on this.

    Whether the club could/should do more to obtain Klopp's targets, is another matter.
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  14. #44  
    WirralRiddler is offline These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    I haven't banged on I've been pretty balanced and even praised them but we need to do better a lot better. We can't continue to be where we are and pretend everything is okay. Why is it such a touchy subject and why do we have to be emotionally attached to them?
    What will it take for you to believe everything is OK?
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  15. #45  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomHighwaysM16 View Post
    We all know that when the oligarchs showed up two of the historically top clubs will stop being that. It seems lady luck has chosen us. Although, we have zilch excuses to be behind Spurs.
    Exactly.
    ?
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  16. #46  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    What will it take for you to believe everything is OK?
    Believe? You make it sound like I'm making things up in my head.
    ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edinburgher View Post
    Yes.

    They bought a bankrupt club that had just lost a world class manager and sold most of their best players without replacing them.

    Expecting that scenario above to translate into anything meaningful on the pitch at any speed is ridiculous.

    Last season we got to two cup finals and this season we've been in the conversation for Champions League all season. We're getting there.

    7 years.
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  18. #48  
    WirralRiddler is offline These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    Believe? You make it sound like I'm making things up in my head.
    I think you are.

    What will it take, honestly?
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  19. #49  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    I think you are.

    What will it take, honestly?
    Am I? Do you want to check the last 7-8 years and see where we finished in the league?
    ?
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  20. #50  
    foreverred-1973 is online now 100% Concentrated
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    I haven't banged on I've been pretty balanced and even praised them but we need to do better a lot better. We can't continue to be where we are and pretend everything is okay. Why is it such a touchy subject and why do we have to be emotionally attached to them?
    Maybe because some of us on here started to support the club decades before 2005 and even 2001?
    Thank God I'm an Atheist!
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
    No divine right to win silverware.
    I see this a lot or with some variation. Take last game for example. Can we say our team done everything we can to their best ability and with some bad luck we lose. We pelted their goal with 50 shot on target but it wont go in? No we lost because incompetent of our player doing almost identical mistake over and over again. That what make people angry.

    Now on to our club i said it so many time we never done everything we can to help ourselves. Numerous example at that as recent as this january. If there was anytime to gamble it should be last january. Sitting top on halfway line we should go out to reinforced our team to cement our position.

    All i can remember a half hearted attempt by the club. As welshy might remember i said there was never a time where we can say lfc has done everything it can possibly done.
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  22. #52  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverred-1973 View Post
    Maybe because some of us on here started to support the club decades before 2005 and even 2001?
    Eh?

    Is this meant to be a dig at me or something?
    ?
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    Our problem for me is player recruitment, it has been nothing short of atrocious for the last 8 years, especially given the money spent. Assuming that we have money set aside for serious investment this summer (we must have given Klopp has spent pittance so far) it will be very telling to see if Klopp can break the cycle of buying overpriced rubbish. Last summer's business could be regarded as solid enough but even that needs to be greatly improved upon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyCatNameTommy View Post
    I see this a lot or with some variation. Take last game for example. Can we say our team done everything we can to their best ability and with some bad luck we lose. We pelted their goal with 50 shot on target but it wont go in? No we lost because incompetent of our player doing almost identical mistake over and over again. That what make people angry.

    Now on to our club i said it so many time we never done everything we can to help ourselves. Numerous example at that as recent as this january. If there was anytime to gamble it should be last january. Sitting top on halfway line we should go out to reinforced our team to cement our position.

    All i can remember a half hearted attempt by the club. As welshy might remember i said there was never a time where we can say lfc has done everything it can possibly done.
    That last game where we pelted their goal with 50 shots on target? You mean the home game where we had 0 shots on target from open play and 1 in total?
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    TomHighwaysM16 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by gedzredz View Post
    Our problem for me is player recruitment, it has been nothing short of atrocious for the last 8 years, especially given the money spent. Assuming that we have money set aside for serious investment this summer (we must have given Klopp has spent pittance so far) it will be very telling to see if Klopp can break the cycle of buying overpriced rubbish. Last summer's business could be regarded as solid enough but even that needs to be greatly improved upon.
    Of course it is player recruitment. That is basically where war is lost or won. Once you assemble the squad for a year, I don't think the best manager in the universe could get more then 10% extra out of them. Leicester's of the world are very very rare, this year is the average season where we are still basically overachieving if you compare our side with Arsenal and United. Still, we time and time again find ourselves in a situation of needing a miracle to achieve a champions league qualification. Miracle!

    95% of this board thought this squad is not good enough for CL before the season. And that fact is true for all seasons before that since FSG came into the town.
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  26. #56  
    WirralRiddler is offline These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    Am I? Do you want to check the last 7-8 years and see where we finished in the league?
    So what will it take, I notice you are not answering.

    1 league title, 2, 3? Couple CL's? A World Cup?

    Whats the benchmark?
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  27. #57  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    So what will it take, I notice you are not answering.

    1 league title, 2, 3? Couple CL's? A World Cup?

    Whats the benchmark?
    Challenging for trophies. Consistently appearing in Europe's elite competition. Competing against the best teams in Europe.
    ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    We as fans should be demanding a lot more from our beloved club's hierarchy and as much as we love Klopp he isn't totally faultless nor were his predecessors but where do we go from here? What has become of this club? It seems like we're happy with FSG can't fault them, can't ask for new ownership, can't do anything, you moan too much you're not a true fan, ask for success (well you can't have instant success), ask for new ownership (you get told it isn't the Liverpool way and we don't want to buy trophies). I've remained patient for long as I could remember but when you see clubs like Tottenham running away from you (yes they haven't won anything significant but they have finished above us for a good few years now) you need to start worrying.

    We get told by the media we'll spend like crazy, we have unlimited funds, we'll have rejuvnated squad, etc... then you get a bench like we did on Sunday and you think wtf is this?

    I love Klopp as much as the next person and I've been hearing he has money every minute but he refuses to spend yet somehow... I didn't want Klopp to be a yes man cos of his reputation but he is exactly that just like Rodgers was. Another year without CL football could be and will be disastrous for us.

    So fellow reds are we happy with where the club is right now?
    No, not good enough. Not by a long chalk.
    If Klopp doesnt sort out defence this summer then he probably needs to go.
    Ive been going on about this for ages only to to told on this forum that it doesnt matter as long as we score more goals.
    Well 2013/14 should have put that argument to bed but it hasnt for some on here. Klopp needs to prioritise defence and defensive MF this summer.
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  29. #59  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    So what now? We wait till this summer and see if Klopp's targets want to come or if their clubs sells and if they don't we go into next season with more or less the same squad?
    yes basically. this will only be his second summer. it would be great to buy a whole new first team in one summer, but it just doesn't happen, it takes time and always has.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    No, not good enough. Not by a long chalk.
    If Klopp doesnt sort out defence this summer then he probably needs to go.
    Ive been going on about this for ages only to to told on this forum that it doesnt matter as long as we score more goals.
    Well 2013/14 should have put that argument to bed but it hasnt for some on here. Klopp needs to prioritise defence and defensive MF this summer.
    you do realise we all know we need to fix it, it's not just you.
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