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Thread: One trophy in 8 years and one CL finish, Is that good enough?

  1. #61  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Correct...and I support Klopp on this.

    Whether the club could/should do more to obtain Klopp's targets, is another matter
    .
    think thats fair.
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  2. #62  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf kal View Post
    yes basically. this will only be his second summer. it would be great to buy a whole new first team in one summer, but it just doesn't happen, it takes time and always has.
    A whole new squad is not required 2-3 players of genuine quality is what this current best 11 needs. Its about securing the right quality players for these positions.
    ?
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  3. #63  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    You seemed to have started a thread for discussion but aren't up for much detailed discussion

    You seriously revising history here? We were screwed a few years back under G&H, about to go under and it was quite well known that there was no queue of bidders for the club, hence the absolute relief and joy when FSG bought the club and G&H were finally ousted and we didn't go over the edge.

    Now a number of years on, it's crunch time with FSG, how seriously will they invest in player recruitment this summer, how much will they support Klopp? That's the key

    This is what I think fans need answered this summer, we have a world class manager with a world class profile, if he's backed then hopefully he can shift us on again next season as he has this season. We've improved no doubt under Klopp to my mind and he's done it with a threadbare squad so the next step is bulking up this team and with real quality.

    I also agree with most, he shouldn't spend funds on just any old player if he can't get his favoured targets, that has been the problem here before and under Rodgers we started to collect up deadwood again, I'm glad that is not being repeated.

    Also, in your post, you refer to the 8 years.....again this is a problem for me, fans judge that way but really for a manager its about isolating his time and work here, so for us yes its frustrating but we're not judging Klopp on 8 years so it would appear part of your frustration is misdirected (your lumping 8 years into the same post as Klopp refusing to spend, then FSG's part, all a bit mixed up frustration with no real point) and I don't think your quite viewing replies properly considering you started this thread
    agree totally with the bold. one summer klopp has had lets see what he does this time around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    A whole new squad is not required 2-3 players of genuine quality is what this current best 11 needs. Its about securing the right quality players for these positions.
    I sort of agree but I think we'd defo need more than that if we are in europe next season.

    We have the nucleus of a good team but the moment injuries hit or suspensions etc we're in trouble so for me the summer has to be about quality as you suggest first and foremost but then we do need more depth in there too
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  5. #65  
    TomHighwaysM16 is online now Academy prospect
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    If we get to CL and if we buy at least 2 really really good players we might keep Coutinho. Without that, I think we will go through the usual recycle process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    A whole new squad is not required 2-3 players of genuine quality is what this current best 11 needs. Its about securing the right quality players for these positions.
    agreed 3 new first teamers But instead of selling a whole bunch again , people like lovren etc can warm the bench , they aren't regular starting class but they can do a job if needed
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  7. #67  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomHighwaysM16 View Post
    We all know that when the oligarchs showed up two of the historically top clubs will stop being that. It seems lady luck has chosen us. Although, we have zilch excuses to be behind Spurs.
    you sure about that tm. they are a young side and been together now for nigh on three years with very few changes - what have we done during those same three years. it shows what some stability with a decent manager can do. only thing spuds are lacking is a bit of real quality, hope they don't get anyone.
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    Fsg bailed us out. But they did it for their own benefit, not for the fans , initially we should be greatful , but they got a bargain at the end of the day.
    Not every mistake they have subsequently made has been down to hicks and Gillette

    And klopp did spend what he could at Dortmund in later years, once they could afford it , let's put that myth to bed, what he did do was spend on players he thought was worth it, then again he had better scouts for picking up bargains and of course zorc to help him out, we have to hope to God Edwards is up to the task

    We are a massive club but we need investment which so far on players we haven't reallt had, someone pointed out a few summers ago that allowing for inflatation we actually spent as much/ more under David moore's, who sold us because he realised he couldn't invest enough to compete, and if that doesn't change then There's the Crux of the problem .


    Even if we don't get cl this summer, we need massive investment, in fact possibly we need to increase wages more to give us a chance, I know we won't do a United and break the transfer record on pogba, but we do need heavy investment, and if Klopp won't do that it's another reason why plenty have wanted a top dof to save klopp from himself, our bare bone squad this season has been laughably weak , in fact we are not so much as limping or crawling over the line but lying down and hoping continental drift carries us over the finish line.

    Fsg need a big summer, more so than klopp even , they have had plenty time for excuses (some of which have been understandable, others have been laughable ), now it's surely time to deliver and invest or sell up
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    Ha! Emre Can says in Guardian this morning:
    "..Its still in our hands. If we win the last four games we will reach the Champions League"

    You couldnt make this up for its utter foolishness. No Emre if we win our last 4 (a big big if ) we would be squeezed out if City and Utd draw at Etihad on Thursday and win all their others. City would be on 80 and utd on 79. Thanks to our listless display on Sunday it is no longer in our own hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
    I think our being in profit in the summer and no money spent in the winter is all down to Klopp. I have seen zero evidence that FSG doesn't allow managers to spend money the club makes.
    Klopp would rather hold on the money if the right players aren't available rather than spend it on players he doesn't want.
    Sounds like a plan - except, if we finish out of the CL, those players he wants may not want to come here, no matter how much he can offer

    It's numbers as much as quality that we've been low on this season and, unfortunately, Klopp didn't plan well enough for the season ahead, either last summer, or in January. Didn't plan for a long season that punishes players who play his kind of intense pressing game (especially susceptible to poor results with such a leaky defence as ours); didn't plan cover for Mane's absence, or for mounting injuries. It's all gone horribly wrong, and he's mostly to blame.

    I blame the owners' recruitment policy, and their lack of understanding of the Premier League, most of all, but I said at the start of the season that if Klopp is not prepared to spend any money he has available then's he's part of the problem too.

    It all could have been so different. Genuine title contenders first half of the season, CL chasers second half. We'll be lucky if we can qualify for it now and, as I said recently, we'll be depending on other teams to help us. Fingers crossed we can still get there, which will be something but, even if we do, this team will need a comprehensive overhaul to allow us any chance of progressing through the CL tournament, and for another league season - especially without Coutinho, who I fully expect to leave if we finish out of the top 4.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Ha! Emre Can says in Guardian this morning:
    "..Its still in our hands. If we win the last four games we will reach the Champions League"

    You couldnt make this up for its utter foolishness. No Emre if we win our last 4 (a big big if ) we would be squeezed out if City and Utd draw at Etihad on Thursday and win all their others. City would be on 80 and utd on 79. Thanks to our listless display on Sunday it is no longer in our own hands.
    I can't see us beating Southampton anyway, too many bottlers
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    agreed 3 new first teamers But instead of selling a whole bunch again , people like lovren etc can warm the bench , they aren't regular starting class but they can do a job if needed
    We def dont need a new team/squad but we need slightly more than 2 or 3 players. We need at least 2 CBS one of whom is a leader. We need a LB and a GK. Thats 4 so far.

    Then we need 2 DMFs (a top class one and a younger one)
    Probably could do with a left sided fast player
    Then with Sturridge and Ings off (probably) we need 2 strikers

    Thats 9.

    More likely we will get 5/6 depending on sales.

    For me the priority should be :
    GK
    LB
    CB
    DMF
    Striker

    Thats 5.
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  13. #73  
    WirralRiddler is online now These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    No, not good enough. Not by a long chalk.
    If Klopp doesnt sort out defence this summer then he probably needs to go.
    Ive been going on about this for ages only to to told on this forum that it doesnt matter as long as we score more goals.
    Well 2013/14 should have put that argument to bed but it hasnt for some on here. Klopp needs to prioritise defence and defensive MF this summer.
    I'd rather improve the attack than the defence, personally.

    People see us drop silly points with draws and think we need a better defence, when actually we need more firepower.

    We draw games 1-1, 2-2 and people focus on the 1 or 2 conceeded. Personally I think we need an attack that often scores more than 2 a game, then the defensive issues wont be such a big deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagaante View Post
    I can't see us beating Southampton anyway, too many bottlers
    I think we'll lose to Hammers and Watford, draw to Saints and beat Midds to just 4 more points to finish 6th.
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  15. #75  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    A whole new squad is not required 2-3 players of genuine quality is what this current best 11 needs. Its about securing the right quality players for these positions.
    i do agree with that fwiw, but as i said, this is his second summer. did you really expect everything to be fixed the day he came in. from day one he has said its a process and yet here we are jumping ahead to the finish line and unhappy cause we ain't first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    I think we'll lose to Hammers and Watford, draw to Saints and beat Midds to just 4 more points to finish 6th.
    i think we'll get 7-9 points out of 12 , but to be honest god knows if we will turn up or not
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    I'd rather improve the attack than the defence, personally.

    People see us drop silly points with draws and think we need a better defence, when actually we need more firepower.

    We draw games 1-1, 2-2 and people focus on the 1 or 2 conceeded. Personally I think we need an attack that often scores more than 2 a game, then the defensive issues wont be such a big deal.
    Mr Guardiola, welcome. He's got it wrong too.

    No team conceding more than 45 goals has won the PL. So you are of the Rodgers persuasion are you. On Sunday it wasnt a case of creating numerous chances and not taking them, it was an abject failure to defend against basic balls like set pieces for example. If you have a team doing that you can have Luis Suarez and an on fire Sturridge up front and you still wont win anything (oh yes we did have those 2 didnt we)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    i think we'll get 7-9 points out of 12 , but to be honest god knows if we will turn up or not
    Have lost faith in this team's ability to defend tbh. So anything can happen. We could implode and lose all 4.
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  19. #79  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    I'd rather improve the attack than the defence, personally.

    People see us drop silly points with draws and think we need a better defence, when actually we need more firepower.

    We draw games 1-1, 2-2 and people focus on the 1 or 2 conceeded. Personally I think we need an attack that often scores more than 2 a game, then the defensive issues wont be such a big deal.
    probably a bit of both tbf. and then comes the conundrum - who do you drop? i love how our front lot play but can't help feeling a dedicated striker in the mold of tevez (wish it were saurez) would add far more.. someone who knows where the net is in tight games.
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  20. #80  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    We def dont need a new team/squad but we need slightly more than 2 or 3 players. We need at least 2 CBS one of whom is a leader. We need a LB and a GK. Thats 4 so far.

    Then we need 2 DMFs (a top class one and a younger one)
    Probably could do with a left sided fast player
    Then with Sturridge and Ings off (probably) we need 2 strikers

    Thats 9.

    More likely we will get 5/6 depending on sales.

    For me the priority should be :
    GK
    LB
    CB
    DMF
    Striker

    Thats 5.
    For me and call me mad I have faith in Karius to turn up next season.

    A left back is a must (first team)
    2 cb's Klavan can leave (first team)
    CM (first team)
    versatile AM
    Striker (first team)
    ?
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  21. #81  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf kal View Post
    i do agree with that fwiw, but as i said, this is his second summer. did you really expect everything to be fixed the day he came in. from day one he has said its a process and yet here we are jumping ahead to the finish line and unhappy cause we ain't first.
    this will Klopp's second summer window... considering he did nothing in January I think he and the club have to get it 90% right this summer. But then again securing top four is a must for us to sign the quality required.
    ?
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    [QUOTE=TheMelwoodMole;12509892]For me and call me mad I have faith in Karius to turn up next season.

    A left back is a must (first team)
    2 cb's Klavan can leave (first team)
    CM (first team)
    versatile AM
    Striker (first team)[/QUOTE]

    so do i , he actually played well in the league cup semis
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  23. #83  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    For me and call me mad I have faith in Karius to turn up next season.

    A left back is a must (first team)
    2 cb's Klavan can leave (first team)
    CM (first team)
    versatile AM
    Striker (first team)
    i keep seeing these lists yet the obvious is missing. we NEED cover for coutinho, firmino (maybe that striker) mane, lallana. but honestly i would love just one season with stupid injuries that last months and wrecks the team.
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  24. #84  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf kal View Post
    i keep seeing these lists yet the obvious is missing. we NEED cover for coutinho, firmino (maybe that striker) mane, lallana. but honestly i would love just one season with stupid injuries that last months and wrecks the team.
    mate every team suffers injuries some a lot more than others thats where your squad comes into play unfortunately we don't have one.

    remember how everyone said how much Spurs would miss Kane during his second injury? Did they?
    ?
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  25. #85  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    this will Klopp's second summer window... considering he did nothing in January I think he and the club have to get it 90% right this summer. But then again securing top four is a must for us to sign the quality required.
    i never have or will count jan as a window as its always been for the smaller clubs except for the odd emergency or opportunity (coutinho/sturridge). prior to the season everything was stripped back ready to build up again. so likely a few first teamers, some back up, so maybe about 7 players coming in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gedzredz View Post
    That last game where we pelted their goal with 50 shots on target? You mean the home game where we had 0 shots on target from open play and 1 in total?
    I said if we pelted their goal with 50 shot but we still lose not many will get angry. But somehow the effort was not there compounded by the same mistake in defence. We dont need some one come up with we have no devine right to win. No one said we have devine right all we ask give it a real go from the team and the club hierachy.
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  27. #87  
    lonewolf kal is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    mate every team suffers injuries some a lot more than others thats where your squad comes into play unfortunately we don't have one.

    remember how everyone said how much Spurs would miss Kane during his second injury? Did they?
    at the start of the season and they were tepid to say the least. how long was he out for.. who else from the spine of thier team did they lose?? we have lost for months at a time and sequentially also, mane, henderson, lallana, coutinho ( i would add sturridge but whats the point anymore) and intermittantly lovren and matip. remove the same from any team and it would have a big impact. niggles, which most teams/players get is a few games which can be covered, but not when you lose players fior that amount of time it becomes more difficult and disruptive.
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    Honestly, I think it's a disgrace how with our back-end fixture list, we haven't been able to secure Top 4.

    Yes, there are no easy games in the Premier League. However, there are easier games than others, and our fixture list was very favourable.

    It's shambolic how we're going to miss out on Top 4 again after such a good start to the season.

    The emotional investment just isn't worth it at times.
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  29. #89  
    TomHighwaysM16 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batteries View Post
    Honestly, I think it's a disgrace how with our back-end fixture list, we haven't been able to secure Top 4.

    Yes, there are no easy games in the Premier League. However, there are easier games than others, and our fixture list was very favourable.

    It's shambolic how we're going to miss out on Top 4 again after such a good start to the season.

    The emotional investment just isn't worth it at times.
    I think we overachieved heavily in first part of the season. I wouldn't give us top 4 finish based on our squad. If Klopp manages to do it, fair play to him, it would be a little miracle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    the lack of ambition the club is showing is killing me inside.
    yeh just hoping for a 4th place finnish is killing me too
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