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Thread: FA approves retrospective action for diving

  1. #1 Default FA approves retrospective action for diving 
    TattooedByAgger is online now Academy prospect
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    Surprised there is not a thread on this yet...

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39962886

    Players who dive in English football will face bans from next season under new Football Association regulations.

    Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

    Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension...
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    Hazard is leaving for Madrid at the right time then.

    Ashley Young was last spotted drafting a retirement letter.
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  3. #3  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedByAgger View Post
    Surprised there is not a thread on this yet...

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39962886

    Players who dive in English football will face bans from next season under new Football Association regulations.

    Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

    Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension...
    Carra retweeted this and said 'More bad news for United next season.'

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    I wonder how this will affect officiating? Will refs be even more reluctant to punish players at the time knowing that it will be reviewed and retrospectively punished?
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    About ####### time, should be a 5 game ban.
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    How this will work i`ve no idea
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  7. #7  
    TattooedByAgger is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    I wonder how this will affect officiating? Will refs be even more reluctant to punish players at the time knowing that it will be reviewed and retrospectively punished?
    Was wondering the same thing. IMO, they should at least err on the side of withholding punishment.

    Edit: I guess my argument here is a bit irrelevant given the point brought up directly below.
    Last edited by TattooedByAgger; 18-5-17 at 19:29.
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    I notice that the punishable offence is termed "successful deception of a match official" - so they'll only be looking at cases where a free kick/penalty has been awarded. Surely unsuccessful attempts should also be punished?
    Last edited by ***Stuzzza***; 18-5-17 at 18:02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedByAgger View Post
    Surprised there is not a thread on this yet...

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39962886

    Players who dive in English football will face bans from next season under new Football Association regulations.

    Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

    Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension...
    This is absolutely a ridiculous decision made by the FA unless other countries will be following suit, other countries will be perfecting the art of simulation to gain an advantage while we punish our players, until action is taken by FIFA and UEFA to stop the diving and simulation of injury we should carry on as we are. It really is part of the game now no matter how much we don't like seeing it.

    No one is going to blink an eyelid when someone dives in a world cup or European championship, except of course England.
    Last edited by grudge; 18-5-17 at 19:05.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    I notice that the punishable offence is termed "successful deception of a match official" - so they'll only be looking at cases where a free kick/penalty has been awarded. Surely unsuccessful attempts should also be punished?
    Agree 3 game ban and a 5 game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    I notice that the punishable offence is termed "successful deception of a match official" - so they'll only be looking at cases where a free kick/penalty has been awarded. Surely unsuccessful attempts should also be punished?
    Since diving is not allowed, doing it and not being seen could also be a successful deception
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    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    This is going to be mayhem, isn't it? There's going to be players punished when they probably shouldn't have been, and vice versa. Then again, what use is a ban to the team who were conned out of a result during the game?

    For me, referees just need to stop being so soft. They give freekicks for literally every little bit of contact, and a lot of the time none at all, even when it's blatantly obvious the player has thrown himself to the ground. How many times do you see a referee give a freekick for very little during a game? Countless. If they cut that out, I'm sure it would become less prominent and less likely to happen. The retrospective thing is good in theory, but I think there will be problems with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    This is going to be mayhem, isn't it? There's going to be players punished when they probably shouldn't have been, and vice versa. Then again, what use is a ban to the team who were conned out of a result during the game?

    For me, referees just need to stop being so soft. They give freekicks for literally every little bit of contact, and a lot of the time none at all, even when it's blatantly obvious the player has thrown himself to the ground. How many times do you see a referee give a freekick for very little during a game? Countless. If they cut that out, I'm sure it would become less prominent and less likely to happen. The retrospective thing is good in theory, but I think there will be problems with it.
    Spot on, if they can look at the footage after the game and hand out retrospective punishment, surely they could have a look at the footage at the time of the incident and send the player off there and then.
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    player dives wins pen your team lose 1-0.player then receives ban on Monday but the other team still have the 3 points,also how many refs are going to bottle it give the pen and leave it to the committee to sort out.
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    The more I consider the points raised so far, the more this new rule seems a potential can of worms.

    The FA will need to be so very careful with its implementation.
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    new analysis/article on BBC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39969813

    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    This is going to be mayhem, isn't it? There's going to be players punished when they probably shouldn't have been, and vice versa. Then again, what use is a ban to the team who were conned out of a result during the game?
    Not so sure. What I read is there is a panel and they have to all agree it was a dive. The more on the panel the less chance there is of error, don't know how many are on a disciplinary panel though - at least three I'd guess (now looked, it is exactly three - an ex official, ex player, ex manager)

    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    For me, referees just need to stop being so soft. They give freekicks for literally every little bit of contact, and a lot of the time none at all, even when it's blatantly obvious the player has thrown himself to the ground. How many times do you see a referee give a freekick for very little during a game? Countless. If they cut that out, I'm sure it would become less prominent and less likely to happen. The retrospective thing is good in theory, but I think there will be problems with it.
    Could make it a red card offence, which begs the question is it an offence with a heftier punishment if retrospectively found guilty than for being punished during the game (yellow) I would like to see straight reds for time wasting and diving in particular, make the punishment the maximum on field such that it will deter (some) players from diving or wasting time.
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    This is going to be mayhem, isn't it? There's going to be players punished when they probably shouldn't have been, and vice versa. Then again, what use is a ban to the team who were conned out of a result during the game?

    For me, referees just need to stop being so soft. They give freekicks for literally every little bit of contact, and a lot of the time none at all, even when it's blatantly obvious the player has thrown himself to the ground. How many times do you see a referee give a freekick for very little during a game? Countless. If they cut that out, I'm sure it would become less prominent and less likely to happen. The retrospective thing is good in theory, but I think there will be problems with it.
    Yea tend to agree - if less fouls were given for small things then simulation would be less prominent - apart from maybe in the box where its gonna happen whatever
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    TheDarknessIsCalling is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravo19 View Post
    player dives wins pen your team lose 1-0.player then receives ban on Monday but the other team still have the 3 points,also how many refs are going to bottle it give the pen and leave it to the committee to sort out.
    I was hearing (more) about technology to assist referees in key decisions like penalties, but struggling to remember when it will come in or at what level/in what league

    *scoots off to check*

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39157887

    FA Cup next season from third round? (? for not sure if wanted or gonna happen) But anyway, where I was going to come from is technology could stop the diving in the box more and avoid wrong decisions if they'd stop waiting until Christmas 2020 to bring it in.

    And who wonders if Ronaldo saw "retrospective punishment for diving" and was anticipating a life ban..............?
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    What happens in cases where the player has jumped out of the way of a potential leg-breaker? The ref knows there's no contact but gives the free kick for the illegal challenge. This is considered acceptable in some circumstances.

    Now, imagine instead that the ref saw the same incident and thought there was contact?

    Has the player legitimately deceived the ref?
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    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by MishMasch View Post
    Yea tend to agree - if less fouls were given for small things then simulation would be less prominent - apart from maybe in the box where its gonna happen whatever
    Yeah, I definitely think the referees encourage it at the moment with how easily they give freekicks. It amazes me watching games and just seeing players fall over and a freekick given, and there isn't even one word or argument about it. It's just accepted. If they toughen up in geenral play and stop blowing up for absolutely everything, players would realise it's pointless and it would become less prevalant. As for the incidents inside the box, why can't they have an actual time reaction? Have an official watch on a monitor with instant replays of big decisions and have him relay through to the ref. If the ref gives a penalty incorrectly, the official on the monitor could have it corrected within 30 seconds.
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  21. #21  
    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    What happens in cases where the player has jumped out of the way of a potential leg-breaker? The ref knows there's no contact but gives the free kick for the illegal challenge. This is considered acceptable in some circumstances.

    Now, imagine instead that the ref saw the same incident and thought there was contact?

    Has the player legitimately deceived the ref?
    This is the sort of thing I was talking about in my first post, there is going to be a lot of controversay over such incidents, or how about the likes of Vardy jumping across players to be caught? Many people say it's a dive, while others argue it is clever play. There will be drama either way.
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    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    new analysis/article on BBC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39969813



    Not so sure. What I read is there is a panel and they have to all agree it was a dive. The more on the panel the less chance there is of error, don't know how many are on a disciplinary panel though - at least three I'd guess (now looked, it is exactly three - an ex official, ex player, ex manager)



    Could make it a red card offence, which begs the question is it an offence with a heftier punishment if retrospectively found guilty than for being punished during the game (yellow) I would like to see straight reds for time wasting and diving in particular, make the punishment the maximum on field such that it will deter (some) players from diving or wasting time.
    There are three judges in boxing and still numerous controversial, wrong decisions. It will happen.

    I was thinking that too, why is it only a bannable offence after the game? Why is it only a yellow if spotted in-game?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    There are three judges in boxing and still numerous controversial, wrong decisions. It will happen.
    Hopefully between the three there'll be at least one who needs convincing it was a dive, as long as it is only a ban "beyond reasonable doubt" then we'll be ok but I think it will be fun seeing the bans dished out and the widespread analysis by all and sundry ie they'll be subject to a much larger panel of judges so can't really afford there to be any doubt....

    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post

    I was thinking that too, why is it only a bannable offence after the game? Why is it only a yellow if spotted in-game?
    Maybe in a few weeks time they'll realise............
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    Nah. I reckon this will have minimal impact on the status quo.

    Ref's will be told - do exactly what you're doing now. There should be no difference as far as they are concerned. If you see a dive, book the player.

    This should really only effect the incidents that the ref doesn't see. Whereas now nothing can happen, from next season, this panel can give a ban retrospectively.

    So, really, the only question that remains is - would ref's be tempted to not issue a card for diving?
    The answer really is - why would they do that? Ref's only issue cards for diving if they feel sure the player dived. The only ref's this might effect are the weak ones who don't like going against the home team or give in to pressure from the bigger teams like Chelsea and Manu. But the fact is, those ref's are **** anyway and make those decisions anyway. So I don't think it will have a negative impact. but it does mean players might think twice.

    Don't forget also that this may have no teeth if all three jurors need to agree. You might find it affects 2 or 3 players in any one season.

    It's a bit of a non thing IMO but you will see the BBC, Sky and BTS blow it up out of all proportion!
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    First off, diving in the penalty area should be awarded with a red card. If you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity, you get sent off. Same punishment for trying to create an obvious goal scoring opportunity (spot kick) with a dive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    First off, diving in the penalty area should be awarded with a red card. If you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity, you get sent off. Same punishment for trying to create an obvious goal scoring opportunity (spot kick) with a dive.
    Haven't they already changed that rule so that denying a goalscoring opportunity inside the box is now a penalty and yellow card, but if outside it's a free kick and a red?
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderbird View Post
    So, really, the only question that remains is - would ref's be tempted to not issue a card for diving?
    The answer really is - why would they do that? Ref's only issue cards for diving if they feel sure the player dived.
    Some schools of thought in commentary teams and pundits alike are black and white, player dived or was fouled, so working along that line of thought does that not mean they would struggle not to do let players they think may have dived off? There is scope a player may have tripped or lost their footing, or a fair challenge committed and they were just caught in it, but I think it may cause uproar if refs keep cards in their pockets even if the colour is becoming an issue (here if nowhere else)
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  28. #28  
    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Haven't they already changed that rule so that denying a goalscoring opportunity inside the box is now a penalty and yellow card, but if outside it's a free kick and a red?
    Yeah, finally. One of the better decisions they've made recently.

    Well, you'll still get a red if it's a blatant intentional foul to stop a goal, but genuine tackles that result in penalties are now only a yellow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    This is the sort of thing I was talking about in my first post, there is going to be a lot of controversay over such incidents, or how about the likes of Vardy jumping across players to be caught? Many people say it's a dive, while others argue it is clever play. There will be drama either way.
    I'd guess it comes down to what the ref puts in his match report - if he says he made the decision based on contact and there was none then his decision will be overturned.

    But does his report go into such detail on every decision? Surely not?
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    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Haven't they already changed that rule so that denying a goalscoring opportunity inside the box is now a penalty and yellow card, but if outside it's a free kick and a red?
    Depends on the challenge.

    "Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity in the penalty area is no longer a straight red card - unless the offence is holding, pulling or pushing; there's no attempt to play or no possibility of making a challenge; or it's an offence which is punishable by a red card, no matter where on the pitch it happens - violent conduct, for example.
    Violent conduct is punishable by a red card even if no contact is made."
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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