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Thread: Nathaniel Clyne

  1. #181  
    canuck33 is online now You can call me Fred
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I'd have no problem with that. I actually think somebody who could play intelligently at left back (like a midfielder) could be a really interesting prospect. I liked Bayern's control when Lahm and Alaba tucked in alongside Alonson with two wingers.

    They got involved in the midfield and helped control games. You need players with quality to play in midfield to do this.
    We have been doing that on the right when Mane played. But Coutinho like to play more central and deeper, so Milner had to overlap much more. If we had Mane and Salah playing wide up front we could play that Munich set-up, and I think we should.
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  2. #182  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    He does attempt more difficult passes. That's because he's a better passer. The caveat is some of them go astray more. I have no doubt if he attempted the limited passes Clyne does his pass completion would be higher.

    Milner also plays higher up the pitch than Clyne. The higher up the pitch you go the more your pass completion reduces.

    You know what I'll explain it a different way. Lovren makes more passes than Coutinho. He gives the ball away less. He has a higher pass completion rate than Coutinho. Therefore Lovren gives the ball away less and completes more passes so he's the better passer?

    Or is it Coutinho? Given Coutinho tries more risky passes (that come with rewards also) and plays higher up the pitch? That is why you have to interpret stats.

    Hence Milner makes more passes, completes slightly lower percentage but still completes at least 11 more every game and he plays further up and he attempts significantly more long and more difficult passes (400% more).

    When you add those stats to him making almost 3 times as many crosses, scoring more goals and more assists and the fact he's actually an experienced attacking midfield and then match up against Clyne clearly Milner is much more influential in our attacking play.

    More goals, more assists, almost 3 times as many crosses, 4 times as many more difficult long passes completed, 12 passes more per game, 11 passes more completed per game the evidence of overwhelming and the reality is I didn't need the evidence you can see because it is completely obvious.

    The fact Clyne plays deeper, takes on much fewer risky passes, crosses a fraction of what Milner does but has a slightly higher pass completion rate (due to being deeper and playing less risky passes) then if you wish to draw something from that that's fine.

    Personally I think you want to defend your position that Milner is only marginally more influential in attack and you'll stick doggedly to this final point.
    When you compare the stats, and you brought stats into it, the offensive stats between Clyne and Milner are the very definition of 'marginal'. The exception being goals scored of course because Milner takes the penalties.

    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/45...w/James-Milner

    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/69...athaniel-Clyne

    Let's not start comparing the type of pass Coutinho attempts to those Milner does by the way. That's complete chalk and cheese.
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  3. #183  
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Where did I say was Clyne was better?
    Where did I say Clyne was better. I said the difference, generally, in impact each has on our offensive play is marginal and I stand by that.
    Last edited by robertretford; 3-6-17 at 17:34.
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  4. #184  
    steviewonder87 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    Where did I say Clyne was better. I said the difference, generally, in impact each has on our offensive play is marginal and I stand by that.
    Where did I say that you said that Clyne was better?
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  5. #185  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    Where did I say Clyne was better. I said the difference, generally, in impact each has on our offensive play is marginal and I stand by that.
    However clearly it isn't. Milner has more assists, more goals, delivers three times as many crosses, plays 4 times as many accurate long balls and averages 11 passes more per game.

    Imagine just the past stats if players wanted the ball so little they all dropped their pass output by 11 per game. Across the board that would be 110 passes less and hand possession control to most teams.
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  6. #186  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    However clearly it isn't. Milner has more assists, more goals, delivers three times as many crosses, plays 4 times as many accurate long balls and averages 11 passes more per game.

    Imagine just the past stats if players wanted the ball so little they all dropped their pass output by 11 per game. Across the board that would be 110 passes less and hand possession control to most teams.
    'Wanted the ball so little'. Clyne averages more passes than most, more than Lallana, Wijnaldum and even Coutinho for example.

    Using 'plays 4 times as many accurate long balls' (not sure accurate should be used by the way), is twisting the stats to suit your argument when the player you're comparing him to typically doesn't play that type of ball preferring to play shorter more accurate passes rather than punt the ball aimlessly forward as Milner and Lovren are prone to do.

    2 assists compared to 3. 1.4 key passes compared to 1.5 seems pretty marginal to me.

    If we're being selective with the information we use and twisting the stats, then Milner has missed more penalties than Clyne .
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  7. #187  
    canuck33 is online now You can call me Fred
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    Ahh, the Clyne v Milner battle is still raging.
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  8. #188  
    Mouldiogs is online now Wants a little line under his title
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    Quiet a lot of fans turned on Clyne this season.
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  9. #189  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Quiet a lot of fans turned on Clyne this season.
    Not me he's among the best right backs in the league i'm perfectly happy with Clyne.
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  10. #190  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Quiet a lot of fans turned on Clyne this season.
    He came off particularly badly in Mane's absence.

    With Mane they formed a really good partnership, without Mane we missed the penetration and Clyne's shortcomings in the final third were magnified.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    He came off particularly badly in Mane's absence.

    With Mane they formed a really good partnership, without Mane we missed the penetration and Clyne's shortcomings in the final third were magnified.
    Yup, agreed. He also wasn't great in the air or preventing crosses.
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  12. #192  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Quiet a lot of fans turned on Clyne this season.
    His forward play is poor.
    His defending is good, tracks back well.
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  13. #193  
    LordJamieOfCarragher is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    paul joyce‏
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    Nathaniel Clyne has today undergone back surgery. Out for up to three months
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    paul joyce‏
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    Nathaniel Clyne has today undergone back surgery. Out for up to three months
    Not good news. Hopefully trent and gomez keep it up.
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  15. #195  
    canuck33 is online now You can call me Fred
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    paul joyce‏
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    Nathaniel Clyne has today undergone back surgery. Out for up to three months
    Holly crap. He's already been out for over 3 month.
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  16. #196  
    MacFoley'1975 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Not good news. Hopefully trent and gomez keep it up.
    Maybe go for an on loan wing back who can play both left and right side? Experienced too would be ideal.
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  17. #197  
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    Ironic that it may now be Joe that is trying to lift Clyne's spirits!!!
    loyal since 1960.
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    lucky that JK gave alexander-arnold premier league experience as soon as possible
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    Holly crap. He's already been out for over 3 month.
    Indeed. Christmas disappointment.
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    Clyne must be getting very worried about his future. Between Gomez and TAA we have looked pretty decent at RB.

    However it always felt that once Clyne returned, then Clyne becomes number one...but that was before Gomez goes and picks up MOTM against Neymar and TAA becomes a little hero for scoring two Champions League goals.

    3 months of development from those two, and Clyne could be struggling to break his way back in. Could cost him his spot in the England set up and put his Liverpool future in doubt. Feel sorry for him in many ways.
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    i think klopp is turning gomez into a monster, i dont know what, but sometimes the way he play reminds me a little bit of sol campbell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountstmarys View Post
    i think klopp is turning gomez into a monster, i dont know what, but sometimes the way he play reminds me a little bit of sol campbell.
    The key difference between Sol and Joe obviously is the position though. Not 100% sure about Gomez in a back 4 playing at CB yet. Looked okay against Leicester in the cup (his only run out at CB this season for LFC) however I think Klopp prefers him at RB.

    His defense first approach, plus his tendency to drift towards his natural CB position compliments Moreno's polar opposite approach.

    However I do agree about style of play to Sol. Despite them not being the tallest they are both strong as an Ox and quick. Very exciting to see.

    Put him alongside Matip and VVD and a strong CDM in-front and we should have one of the best defenses around on paper.
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    Clyne's got bad spine
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  24. #204  
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    Ahh, the Clyne v Milner battle is still raging.
    Is there even a battle? Both are most ordinary players. Would play TAA and Gomez over either of them, every day of the week.
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    Hope this is not too controversial, and I'm not posting this as kicking a man when he's down, but at the same time football is a harsh business. Does anyone think Clyne's time at Anfield may be done? We all see Joe and T A-A pushing on (although I personally feel certain that the manager sees Joe's future as a CB). I'm mentioning this as I feel the Clyne situation is very similar to Danny Ings. I really had very high hopes for Danny. A grafter and a bit of a poacher. Admittedly he seems on his way back but there's lots ahead of him and for him I see a January loan beckoning. Clyne doesn't have that `luxury' and will most likely not be playing before the seasons end, with rehab etc. Clyney was always very serviceable and of course an international but I'm really wondering if he'll get back here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountbeautygeorge View Post
    Hope this is not too controversial, and I'm not posting this as kicking a man when he's down, but at the same time football is a harsh business. Does anyone think Clyne's time at Anfield may be done? We all see Joe and T A-A pushing on (although I personally feel certain that the manager sees Joe's future as a CB). I'm mentioning this as I feel the Clyne situation is very similar to Danny Ings. I really had very high hopes for Danny. A grafter and a bit of a poacher. Admittedly he seems on his way back but there's lots ahead of him and for him I see a January loan beckoning. Clyne doesn't have that `luxury' and will most likely not be playing before the seasons end, with rehab etc. Clyney was always very serviceable and of course an international but I'm really wondering if he'll get back here.
    I'd say so, a very long road back if I'm wrong. I think the manager prefers to mould a younger player like Trent and I can imagine gomez around for a long time as well.
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  27. #207  
    fredthecamel is online now First team regular
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    real shame that he isnt fit . i think if he was gomez maybe matips partner at cb for the season
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  28. #208  
    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredthecamel View Post
    real shame that he isnt fit . i think if he was gomez maybe matips partner at cb for the season
    Not missing Clyne one bit, to be honest. Nice to have RBs who aren't **** scared of receiving the ball.
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