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  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    This Pakistani side is extremely poor, they need a serious rebuild.
    Not sure they're "extremely poor", just blow hot and cold, or if you prefer they can be extremely good or extremely bad.

    Some decent enough players in their side after all:

    Azhar Ali - averages 38.49 in ODIs, SR a disappointing 75.06 but we didn't say they are or he is world class
    Babar Azam - early career average of 53.20 at an SR of 90.05, not exactly his fault the target was too big
    Mohammed Hafeez - not exactly a star, but averages 32.73 with bat and 36.16 with ball
    Shoaib Malik - averages 35.40 with bat, 38.87 with ball
    Sarfraz Ahmed - the keeper averages 35.18 with bat at SR 88.83, maybe ought to not be captain (too much to bat, keep and be captain as Andy Flower might testify)
    Imad Wasim - averages 38.10 with bat albeit not been playing ODIs long and has a lot of not outs (7 in 17 innings), averages 34.58 with ball at ER 4.80
    Mohammad Amir - handy bat down the order, averages 27.78 with ball
    Wahab Riaz - averages 34.34 with ball, ER 5.69

    Granted a few of the batting averages and SRs taken together suggest they are where England were with decent averages and not great or maybe "modern" SRs, and their bowling was disappointing yesterday, but do take into account India have a devastating batting line-up, have just finished the IPL, and conditions have been set up since the start of the tournament that the team batting first has yet to fail to score 290+
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  2. #32  
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    I am curious as to why Yuvrav was MOTM, I'd suggest in order of nomination :


    Kohli - 81no off 68 balls, helped continue India's momentum after Dhawan was out
    Sharma - 91 off 119 balls, not the quickest but set a platform with Dhawan.
    Dhawan - 68 off 65 balls, not the biggest score but with Sharma set a platform for the rest to score.
    Pandya - 20no off 6 balls including three sixes, helped turn a big total into an even harder one to chase, then took 2/43
    Yadav - 3/30, got threat Babar Azam out and a couple of lower order wickets, as wickets fell I'm including him simply as the best figures return


    Could throw in Jadeja 2/43 but as mentioned wickets fell regularly in Pakistan's innings, only included Pandya as an all-round contribution (not a big one) and Yadav as very good figures, but not sure 53no off 32 balls coming in at 192/2 is more meriting the award than 68 off 65 balls to get the innings going, or 81no off 68 balls, a lower SR but bigger contribution, or 3/31 on face value, or indeed top score 91
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    Hello grenny158. You alright my bru?
    Howzit TMM - I am superb thanks .. immensely grateful that at least we have some quality cricket to turn our attention to now that the footie is over, even if it is the 'lesser' form of the game .. must win game for both Bangladesh and the Aussies today, but can't see the Aussies throwing this one away .. do you know if there is any chance of rain at the Oval today?

    How are things with you?
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    I am curious as to why Yuvrav was MOTM, I'd suggest in order of nomination :


    Kohli - 81no off 68 balls, helped continue India's momentum after Dhawan was out
    Sharma - 91 off 119 balls, not the quickest but set a platform with Dhawan.
    Dhawan - 68 off 65 balls, not the biggest score but with Sharma set a platform for the rest to score.
    Pandya - 20no off 6 balls including three sixes, helped turn a big total into an even harder one to chase, then took 2/43
    Yadav - 3/30, got threat Babar Azam out and a couple of lower order wickets, as wickets fell I'm including him simply as the best figures return


    Could throw in Jadeja 2/43 but as mentioned wickets fell regularly in Pakistan's innings, only included Pandya as an all-round contribution (not a big one) and Yadav as very good figures, but not sure 53no off 32 balls coming in at 192/2 is more meriting the award than 68 off 65 balls to get the innings going, or 81no off 68 balls, a lower SR but bigger contribution, or 3/31 on face value, or indeed top score 91
    For me, Yuvraj ultimately affected the game more positively then any of the others you mentioned TDIC. I was watching when he came in and, at that point in time, Kohli was not exactly struggling but his timing was not what it needed to be, and he was scoring at a rate of about 70% if I am not mistaken .. and the match could have gone either way at that point. Yuvraj coming in immediately got the run rate climbing and also had the effect of relieving some of the pressure off Kohli and allowed him to get into the game more .. it was only after Singh was out that Kohli grabbed the bull by the horns and started scoring freely. Yuvraj also completely dominated the Pakistani bowling for those 32 balls and put immense pressure on them.

    In my opinion, he fully deserved the MoTM .. that is not to take away from the other good performances that you mentioned though.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    must win game for both Bangladesh and the Aussies today, but can't see the Aussies throwing this one away .. do you know if there is any chance of rain at the Oval today?
    England has been pretty miserable last few days, assuming BBC weather has picked the right Kennington, London:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6545174

    Cloudy, not very hot and rain forecast from 4pm so of course this would be a 1.30pm start............

    Bangladesh will be out if they lose, in fact it would gives the aussies 3 points, Bangladesh could only manage 2 points thereafter and since England have to play New Zealand a share of points would give England 3, a win for England 4, a win for New Zealand give them 3, none of which Bangladesh could match.

    A no result in the NZL-AUS game probably the worst result possible for Bangladesh, at least if one side won they could hope one team would win all their games and maybe sneak a win and a three way tie for second (team to go through)
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    For me, Yuvraj ultimately affected the game more positively then any of the others you mentioned TDIC. I was watching when he came in and, at that point in time, Kohli was not exactly struggling but his timing was not what it needed to be, and he was scoring at a rate of about 70% if I am not mistaken .. and the match could have gone either way at that point. Yuvraj coming in immediately got the run rate climbing and also had the effect of relieving some of the pressure off Kohli and allowed him to get into the game more .. it was only after Singh was out that Kohli grabbed the bull by the horns and started scoring freely. Yuvraj also completely dominated the Pakistani bowling for those 32 balls and put immense pressure on them.

    In my opinion, he fully deserved the MoTM .. that is not to take away from the other good performances that you mentioned though.
    I appreciate what you're saying, sometimes the manner, the pace injection etc can make up for less runs scored, but at the same time the platform had been set so makes it easier for cameos to influence.

    I seem to recall a Test where possibly Flintoff came in, hit a score and was seen as the influencer of the outcome whilst others had laid the foundation. I am swayed the other way though, you and others may see quick runs and "positive" influences as more important and compensate less runs scored, I see big runs and foundations laid as compensating slower scoring rates - to a degree.

    Think the Test I'm thinking of was 5th Test, The Oval vs South Africa 2003. South Africa posted a good 484, England were 480/5 when Flintoff came to the crease and joined Trescothick (219). Flintoff smacked 95 runs off 104 balls and helped England to 604/9d from which South Africa never recovered. Flintoff helped take England into a 120 run lead, but Trescothick and Thorpe (124) laid the foundation, the springboard if you like, for Flintoff to give England a 100+ run lead.

    Without Trescothick and Thorpe scoring 57% of the runs between them and giving Flintoff the chance to play more freely than he may otherwise have been able, would England have made 600 or would they have been facing a possible deficit or slim lead..........? Flintoff played his part, but England were 78/2 before that pair had added 268 runs for the third wicket, so there is often more than one way to look at it.

    Besides anything else a run is a run, the style etc doesn't count for much ie a stylish 50 is still only 50 runs whilst a ground out 150 is worth more. Obviously in ODIs the speed of runscoring is a factor, but I think SR and ER have become overblown in their perceived importance. Maybe you are right about the effect of his positive influence, but still they didn't rocket past 300 much further than most sides to date and that in no small part down to Pandya (20 off 6 balls)

    Still, whoever made the award agrees with you, I'm still not convinced by this or a number of awards but each to their own I guess
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  7. #37  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    Howzit TMM - I am superb thanks .. immensely grateful that at least we have some quality cricket to turn our attention to now that the footie is over, even if it is the 'lesser' form of the game .. must win game for both Bangladesh and the Aussies today, but can't see the Aussies throwing this one away .. do you know if there is any chance of rain at the Oval today?

    How are things with you?
    All good mate, the clouds are a bit dark right now so who knows. I don't really fancy anything from this game can see Aussies comfortably beating us.
    ?
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    I appreciate what you're saying, sometimes the manner, the pace injection etc can make up for less runs scored, but at the same time the platform had been set so makes it easier for cameos to influence.

    I seem to recall a Test where possibly Flintoff came in, hit a score and was seen as the influencer of the outcome whilst others had laid the foundation. I am swayed the other way though, you and others may see quick runs and "positive" influences as more important and compensate less runs scored, I see big runs and foundations laid as compensating slower scoring rates - to a degree.

    Think the Test I'm thinking of was 5th Test, The Oval vs South Africa 2003. South Africa posted a good 484, England were 480/5 when Flintoff came to the crease and joined Trescothick (219). Flintoff smacked 95 runs off 104 balls and helped England to 604/9d from which South Africa never recovered. Flintoff helped take England into a 120 run lead, but Trescothick and Thorpe (124) laid the foundation, the springboard if you like, for Flintoff to give England a 100+ run lead.

    Without Trescothick and Thorpe scoring 57% of the runs between them and giving Flintoff the chance to play more freely than he may otherwise have been able, would England have made 600 or would they have been facing a possible deficit or slim lead..........? Flintoff played his part, but England were 78/2 before that pair had added 268 runs for the third wicket, so there is often more than one way to look at it.

    Besides anything else a run is a run, the style etc doesn't count for much ie a stylish 50 is still only 50 runs whilst a ground out 150 is worth more. Obviously in ODIs the speed of runscoring is a factor, but I think SR and ER have become overblown in their perceived importance. Maybe you are right about the effect of his positive influence, but still they didn't rocket past 300 much further than most sides to date and that in no small part down to Pandya (20 off 6 balls)

    Still, whoever made the award agrees with you, I'm still not convinced by this or a number of awards but each to their own I guess
    I hear you but, for me, it is hard to compare the effect a player has in a Test to that in an ODI. An ODI - these days especially - is all about a high batting total and run rate. As it is such a short version of the game, the batting side just cannot afford to get bogged down and therefore have a sluggish run rate, not only because your total ultimately will be lower then it should be but also because it gives impetus to the opposition bowlers (and, by association, the entire team as well which then impacts on fielding etc). The moment a batsman comes in and successfully attacks the - previously miserly - bowling unit, the effect is to galvanise the batting team and put huge pressure on the bowlers (not to mention the captain and his field placings and bowling decisions) to concentrate on line and length etc in order to curb the run rate. That is why I reckon Yuvraj was correctly given MoTM - he came on and dominated the bowlers for a relatively short time but he put doubt in the bowlers (and captains) minds when, prior to that, they were pretty much in control of things. It allowed India to break the shackles and post a total which was always going to be just that bit out of reach of Pakistan.
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  9. #39  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    It's raining in london.
    ?
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    It's raining in london.
    Looks like they should start on time but rain from about 17:00 and throughout the evening.
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  11. #41  
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    Bangladesh v Australia

    Bangladesh win the toss and will bat
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  12. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    I am curious as to why Yuvrav was MOTM, I'd suggest in order of nomination :


    Kohli - 81no off 68 balls, helped continue India's momentum after Dhawan was out
    Sharma - 91 off 119 balls, not the quickest but set a platform with Dhawan.
    Dhawan - 68 off 65 balls, not the biggest score but with Sharma set a platform for the rest to score.
    Pandya - 20no off 6 balls including three sixes, helped turn a big total into an even harder one to chase, then took 2/43
    Yadav - 3/30, got threat Babar Azam out and a couple of lower order wickets, as wickets fell I'm including him simply as the best figures return


    Could throw in Jadeja 2/43 but as mentioned wickets fell regularly in Pakistan's innings, only included Pandya as an all-round contribution (not a big one) and Yadav as very good figures, but not sure 53no off 32 balls coming in at 192/2 is more meriting the award than 68 off 65 balls to get the innings going, or 81no off 68 balls, a lower SR but bigger contribution, or 3/31 on face value, or indeed top score 91
    Kohl edged it for me but fair play to yuvvi - really exploded and changed the momentum after the dropping. Don't mind yuvraj getting it
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  13. #43  
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    Fair play to the aussie bowlers they've been class today.
    ?
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  14. #44  
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    Seems like nobody else wants to play with Tamim Iqbal.
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    Couldn't even complete the 50 overs, bowled out in 44.3 for 182. Our captain made the wrong decision of batting first after winning the toss. Outclassed simple as.
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    The rain is clearly favourite to win this trophy

    One good consequence of that is being able to see the 121s again this afternoon , Half an hour each with Curtly Ambrose and Wasim Akram. Wow, along with Warne my favourite and for me the 3 best bowlers of all time. Fascinating stuff.
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  17. #47  
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    Good point for Australia that
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  18. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddes View Post
    The rain is clearly favourite to win this trophy

    One good consequence of that is being able to see the 121s again this afternoon , Half an hour each with Curtly Ambrose and Wasim Akram. Wow, along with Warne my favourite and for me the 3 best bowlers of all time. Fascinating stuff.
    Waqar Younis is my all time favourite.
    ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    Good point for Australia that
    He he he.

    Looks like the weather is ok in Wales today, please let us have a full day's play.

    Weird how we have had opposites here in Liverpool, every game rained off it's been ok here, yesterday you would of got pretty much a full day's play up here, today it's horrible here and bright there, will be a good game this, NZ are better than they showed the other day.
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  20. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddes View Post
    He he he.

    Looks like the weather is ok in Wales today, please let us have a full day's play.

    Weird how we have had opposites here in Liverpool, every game rained off it's been ok here, yesterday you would of got pretty much a full day's play up here, today it's horrible here and bright there, will be a good game this, NZ are better than they showed the other day.
    Looking forward to today's game, fancy NZ to do us here.
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  21. #51  
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    How is the weather in Cardiff? Come on England!!!
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  22. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    How is the weather in Cardiff? Come on England!!!
    Dry, at the moment, won't stay like that though.

    And will get pretty windy this afternoon too.
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  23. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    Dry, at the moment, won't stay like that though.

    And will get pretty windy this afternoon too.
    Hope the weather stays good & dry, need a england win I still have hope.
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    So, Roy out cheaply again. Scored 13 before being bowled by Milne.

    England are currently 84-1 after 16 overs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    Looking forward to today's game, fancy NZ to do us here.
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    Hales gone.
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    Morgan gone.
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    I reckon 340 score
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I reckon 340 score
    320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    So, Roy out cheaply again. Scored 13 before being bowled by Milne.

    England are currently 84-1 after 16 overs.
    Opening pair of fails and Hales.......... All very well backing a batsman in poor form, but puts pressure on the rest of the batting and gets Root in earlier than England would like (might as well be opening at this rate!)

    Weather forecast on BBC earlier suggested rain from noon onwards. I see the aussies yesterday suffered the 40+ overs by the side batting first ending up no result syndrome. England will be hoping this ends with a result I'm sure.

    If it isn't rain affected then England on course for around 330, not at all surprised not to see Finn drafted straight in.
    People will believe what they want to believe
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