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Thread: London tower block fire.

  1. #841  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    How many survivors are there?
    absolutely no idea, hundreds I imagine, impossible to give an accurate number as there's no way of knowing who was in the building at the time, it's not an airport departure lounge with biometric passports and workers ID badges required by everyone there, it's a towerblock of flats.
    Last edited by angelYNWA; 10-7-17 at 10:08.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Check it out.

    Fairly interesting.

    Almost autonomous states?

    https://www.ft.com/content/7c8f24fa-...abdc0?mhq5j=e1




    The City of London supported George Washington and provided funds and men for the cause. The citizens of London reminded the king, to the point of treason, that it was they and not he who had won the civil war.




    Even as Parliament displaced the Crown as the fundamental unit of sovereignty and democracy displaced the Divine Right of Kings as the principle of legitimacy, the state still refused to subordinate the Corporation of London to national laws and practices. Its assets and its ancient privileges remained untouched.

    The City survived each wave of Victorian municipal reform. The Corporationís assets, its property inventory and financial portfolio remain unpublished.
    Thanks for the quotes. The guardian article quoted in the Sqwawka link is quite illuminating too. Its funny that institutions like this still exist, almost frozen in time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    absolutely no idea, hundreds I imagine, impossible to give an accurate number as there's no way of knowing who was in the building at the time, it's not an airport departure lounge with biometric passports and workers ID badges required by everyone there, it's a towerblock of flats.
    Sajad Jamalvatan seems to have some ideas on how these figures can be gathered though.

    Glad to hear that you are happy for such efforts to be led by the traumatised residents and not the 'authorities' due to the magnitude and difficulty, after all its not an airport lounge is it?.

    I happen to disagree. Its not down to Sajad. Fair play to him though. I don't label him as a conspiracy theorist to be honest. Anyone who does needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Thanks for the quotes. The guardian article quoted in the Sqwawka link is quite illuminating too. Its funny that institutions like this still exist, almost frozen in time.
    No problem.

    Oh the bold bit...careful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Sajad Jamalvatan seems to have some ideas on how these figures can be gathered though.

    Glad to hear that you are happy for such efforts to be led by the traumatised residents and not the 'authorities' due to the magnitude and difficulty, after all its not an airport lounge is it?.

    I happen to disagree. Its not down to Sajad. Fair play to him though. I don't label him as a conspiracy theorist to be honest. Anyone who does needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
    what the hell are you even on about? Where have I said it should be down to residents? And I haven't labeled him as anything, conspiracy theorist or otherwise, but you know that.

    I answered the point about the death toll, which will only be known when all the bodies have been identified or until all efforts to do so have been completely exhausted, either of which is down to the Coroners office and the police.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    what the hell are you even on about? Where have I said it should be down to residents? And I haven't labeled him as anything, conspiracy theorist or otherwise, but you know that.

    I answered the point about the death toll, which will only be known when all the bodies have been identified or until all efforts to do so have been completely exhausted, either of which is down to the Coroners office and the police.
    Sorry I thought you mentioned conspiracy a few posts back...my mistake.
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  7. #847  
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    So finally the police release the number of survivors = 255
    and tell us there were 350 people living in the tower
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturalskill View Post
    So finally the police release the number of survivors = 255
    and tell us there were 350 people living in the tower
    yes, it's almost as if they wanted to give an accurate number rather than spew out any old crap to people .
    Last edited by GrottonRed; 11-7-17 at 14:34.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    yes, it's almost as if they wanted to give an accurate number rather than spew out any old crap to people.
    Last edited by GrottonRed; 11-7-17 at 14:35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    yes, it's almost as if they wanted to give an accurate number rather than spew out any old crap to people .
    No, its almost as if the pressure from the residents and their families on the authorities to stop obscuring information has forced the authorities into releasing some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    No, its almost as if the pressure from the residents and their families on the authorities to stop obscuring information has forced the authorities into releasing some.
    correct
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    They absolutely should not have released any number until they were sure they had exhausted every avenue with regards to accuracy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump View Post
    They absolutely should not have released any number until they were sure they had exhausted every avenue with regards to accuracy.
    But they did...almost from day one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    But they did...almost from day one.
    Yes, numbers they could confirm beyond a reasonable doubt. No cover up, just accuracy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    Yes, numbers they could confirm beyond a reasonable doubt. No cover up, just accuracy.
    Like 7 dead you mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Like 7 dead you mean?
    At the time yes. As I mentioned before it was a block of flats, not a plane crash in a field with known passenger and crew manifestos so numbers involved are known.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    But they did...almost from day one.
    A total or estimated total number, but of course you knew that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump View Post
    A total or estimated total number, but of course you knew that.
    Yes a total of 7 dead was what came out in the first 48 hours or so...I did know that.

    It is now at 80 how many weeks later?

    The number is already in the public domain and is what will get remembered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Yes a total of 7 dead was what came out in the first 48 hours or so...I did know that.

    It is now at 80 how many weeks later?

    The number is already in the public domain and is what will get remembered.
    Do you remember Hillsborough?

    The number wasn't 95 at 6tpm that day. It started low and gradually went up.

    And of course it went to 96 with Tony bland. Didn't want anyone to make themselves look stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Do you remember Hillsborough?

    The number wasn't 95 at 6tpm that day. It started low and gradually went up.

    And of course it went to 96 with Tony bland. Didn't want anyone to make themselves look stupid.
    I do indeed remember the cover up that was Hillsborough.

    I think the two tragic events are very different.
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    Grenfell Tower: insulation was not certified for use with flammable cladding

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nsulation-plan
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  22. #862  
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    Here's what's really going on behind the scenes
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...byists-housing
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    I do indeed remember the cover up that was Hillsborough.

    I think the two tragic events are very different.
    I was replying to people wanting immediate numbers
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    I wonder how long this will take to disappear from the public psyche.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    There was no need to quote, I did read it.

    If you do a little digging you can read the sources for this article including the things they missed out or over embellished. I think in a subject so sensitive as this fire the last thing we need is a hard left or even hard right view with skewed information.

    I do agree its an oddity that shouldn't exist but you can see why it exists in the way it does in that there are over 300,000 people working in what must be 10's of thousands of companies with a very small portion of actual residents. Its essentially a very large business centre on a global scale with some residents.
    Just read an article on what we were talking about here in Private corporation owning essentially public land in London which rung a bell when the original article mentioned stopping people taking photos. It might fill in some gaps in what was looking like a weird instance of secrecy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...estigation-map

    Not that it still doesn't look weird.

    Sorry for being slightly off topic to the Fire.
    Last edited by Eloader; 24-7-17 at 14:37.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Just read an article on what we were talking about here in Private corporation owning essentially public land in London which rung a bell when the original article mentioned stopping people taking photos. It might fill in some gaps in what was looking like a weird instance of secrecy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...estigation-map

    Not that it still doesn't look weird.

    Sorry for being slightly off topic to the Fire.
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...rporate-owners

    Corbyn is on the case.
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    Some ridiculous law called "Intellectual property Rights" gives private owners of tower blocks no obligation to inform tenants if the block theyre living in is safe or not.

    This is mad and was almost certainly brought in by the Tories protecting their private landlord MPs or some idiotic New Lab MP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Some ridiculous law called "Intellectual property Rights" gives private owners of tower blocks no obligation to inform tenants if the block theyre living in is safe or not.

    This is mad and was almost certainly brought in by the Tories protecting their private landlord MPs or some idiotic New Lab MP.
    IPR is not there to protect the council or housing association in providing/utilising a product that is not capable of performing the task it is meant to do. It is there to allow someone or an organisation to have a competitive advantage due to an idea, design, method of manufacture, etc. of the item they are providing. There is also a dependency on if the council and/or housing association is considered to be an intelligent customer.

    Would you expect Coca Cola or Chartreuse to be expected to hand over their recipes if their drinks are linked to a poisoning case? Especially to the normal person on the street. If a case has occurred they would be expected to work with the regulatory authorities which may include non-disclosure agreements. However, if the issue is outside of what is within the gift of the company has a direct influence on then shouldn't they be able to retain their corporate secrets?
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul143 View Post
    IPR is not there to protect the council or housing association in providing/utilising a product that is not capable of performing the task it is meant to do. It is there to allow someone or an organisation to have a competitive advantage due to an idea, design, method of manufacture, etc. of the item they are providing. There is also a dependency on if the council and/or housing association is considered to be an intelligent customer.

    Would you expect Coca Cola or Chartreuse to be expected to hand over their recipes if their drinks are linked to a poisoning case? Especially to the normal person on the street. If a case has occurred they would be expected to work with the regulatory authorities which may include non-disclosure agreements. However, if the issue is outside of what is within the gift of the company has a direct influence on then shouldn't they be able to retain their corporate secrets?
    Did you even read what he said?
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