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Thread: General Election 2017...The Aftermath.

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    she is Prime Minister and before that Home Secretary for 7 years, while the fire itself was not her fault, she and the Tory party are certainly a contributing factor to the conditions that led to it.

    This has been building for years, and it has finally exploded on her watch. David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg, Phillip Davies and many many others in her party have constantly attacked the notion of a "health and safety" culture both in speeches, newspaper articles and bills in Parliament.
    Utter rubbish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Utter rubbish.
    every single word of my post is accurate, the articles, speeches and bills are all readily available online and as is the timeline of Theresa May since 2010.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    every single word of my post is accurate, the articles, speeches and bills are all readily available online and as is the timeline of Theresa May since 2010.
    The tower was also there under labour. Stop using this disaster to make corbyn pm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    The tower was also there under labour. Stop using this disaster to make corbyn pm.
    yeah, it was there under Labour. That's kinda the point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    The tower was also there under labour. Stop using this disaster to make corbyn pm.
    It's a discussion forum, I don't think posters quite have that power somehow....

    It's a wider symbolic issue sadly, one with echoes of class division. People have just suffered horrific needless losses of loved ones, lives destroyed through disgusting lazy neglect locally, while others had thrived.

    May is inadvertently to a degree the current face of all that is wrong regarding their treatment both before & after this tragedy.

    To not expect reactions, blame etc as the face of an austerity driven government which could be seen as playing a part, would be naive IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Utter rubbish.
    When people resort to this type of response you know the debating cupboard is bear. Just abuse is no argument.

    So anyone out who still thinks May will be PM by the autumn or that there wont be another election within 6mths?
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    It's a discussion forum, I don't think posters quite have that power somehow....

    It's a wider symbolic issue sadly, one with echoes of class division. People have just suffered horrific needless losses of loved ones, lives destroyed through disgusting lazy neglect locally, while others had thrived.

    May is inadvertently to a degree the current face of all that is wrong regarding their treatment both before & after this tragedy.

    To not expect reactions, blame etc as the face of an austerity driven government which could be seen as playing a part, would be naive IMO.
    People are just playing the blame game to get their own way in politics.
    you cannot hold a pm or even government responsible for every tragedy.
    the ones responsible are those in charge of running the tower block who may have cut costs when "upgrading" the tower block.

    you also use the disaster to highlight class division. are you saying no middle or upper class ever get killed in tragedies?

    i can probably guess that the vast majority of those blaming may for this are labour voters.......just shows how low these people go to get their own way
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Filthy Marxist ideology....wow seriously? Do you actually know what Marxism is?

    What a horribly clumsy post & your comments about youth & what they need to learn is rather absurd really.

    In a rare time when youth are engaging in politics you've deemed them as all ignorant, I assume because they didn't vote your way....that is a stunning piece of arrogant & dismissive thinking to the point of being amusing
    most are ignorant. had some of them spouting off at me saying how they were voting labour.

    i said, "have you registered?"

    reply was "errrrr not yet"

    my reply " too late now, the deadline has passed"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Calling this filthy marxist ideology is revealing. Labour's programme is mainstream in most of Europe and not regarded as left wing at all but then if it is seen as marxist it shows how extreme the other way some folks are
    corbyn is extreme left. far more dangerous than so called right wing politics
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    When people resort to this type of response you know the debating cupboard is bear. Just abuse is no argument.

    So anyone out who still thinks May will be PM by the autumn or that there wont be another election within 6mths?
    who knows but it will be yet another example of losers crying so much that they get another go at voting
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  11. #41  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    People are just playing the blame game to get their own way in politics.
    you cannot hold a pm or even government responsible for every tragedy.
    the ones responsible are those in charge of running the tower block who may have cut costs when "upgrading" the tower block.

    you also use the disaster to highlight class division. are you saying no middle or upper class ever get killed in tragedies?

    i can probably guess that the vast majority of those blaming may for this are labour voters.......just shows how low these people go to get their own way
    since 2010, 7 years, and constant complaints about the safety ... with Boris Johnson cutting the services... May the Police.... AND NOT BLAME the Tories? After 7 years? .... How much time do you need? A lifetime?

    Admittedly Labour didn't do anything either before that.... but I see hardly any difference between Tory-lite and Tory Government. Labour is different now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    People are just playing the blame game to get their own way in politics.
    you cannot hold a pm or even government responsible for every tragedy.
    the ones responsible are those in charge of running the tower block who may have cut costs when "upgrading" the tower block.

    you also use the disaster to highlight class division. are you saying no middle or upper class ever get killed in tragedies?

    i can probably guess that the vast majority of those blaming may for this are labour voters.......just shows how low these people go to get their own way
    You clearly didn't read or don't understand my post based on this reply.

    You are the one banging on about Labour constantly, I merely laid out why May might be getting a hard time in the face of such an horrific event.

    Your own lack of empathy around that & divisive approach to the discussion is a bit tiresome really, so will leave you to it
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    since 2010, 7 years, and constant complaints about the safety ... with Boris Johnson cutting the services... May the Police.... AND NOT BLAME the Tories? After 7 years? .... How much time do you need? A lifetime?

    Admittedly Labour didn't do anything either before that.... but I see hardly any difference between Tory-lite and Tory Government. Labour is different now.
    but don't you dare make this political!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    since 2010, 7 years, and constant complaints about the safety ... with Boris Johnson cutting the services... May the Police.... AND NOT BLAME the Tories? After 7 years? .... How much time do you need? A lifetime?

    Admittedly Labour didn't do anything either before that.... but I see hardly any difference between Tory-lite and Tory Government. Labour is different now.
    labour isnt different at all. in fact they're worse .
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    corbyn is extreme left. far more dangerous than so called right wing politics
    I'm no cheerleader of Corbyn at all, but if honestly you think that Labour manifesto is extreme left then all that shows is how far to the right the current Tory party is.

    and "so called right wing politics" shows how far to the right you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    I'm no cheerleader of Corbyn at all, but if honestly you think that Labour manifesto is extreme left then all that shows is how far to the right the current Tory party is.

    and "so called right wing politics" shows how far to the right you are.
    his manifesto isnt worth a jot. if he put all that into place we'd be high and dry within 5 years begging europe for help. and of course they'd tell us to get lost
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    oops wrong thread sorry
    Last edited by naturalskill; 18-6-17 at 10:14.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    his manifesto isnt worth a jot. if he put all that into place we'd be high and dry within 5 years begging europe for help. and of course they'd tell us to get lost
    Fully costed mate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    his manifesto isnt worth a jot. if he put all that into place we'd be high and dry within 5 years begging europe for help. and of course they'd tell us to get lost
    compared to 7p per breakfast for kids in schools and bringing back fox hunting? Tally-Ho!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Em-inLeam View Post
    Fully costed mate.
    sure it is. and it'll work as long as the top 5% earners are willing to pay the increase in tax. then we'll have to support another couple of million immigrants under labour. yes we'll deal with it easily. new hospitals,schools,transport systems and higher wages for everyone. i can really see all these small companies being able to pay their workers 12 an hour......bang crash whallop
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    sure it is. and it'll work as long as the top 5% earners are willing to pay the increase in tax. then we'll have to support another couple of million immigrants under labour. yes we'll deal with it easily. new hospitals,schools,transport systems and higher wages for everyone. i can really see all these small companies being able to pay their workers 12 an hour......bang crash whallop
    yeah imagine spending money for new homes, schools and hospitals. What utter evil *******s.
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  22. #52  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    yeah imagine spending money for new homes, schools and hospitals. What utter evil *******s.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    When people resort to this type of response you know the debating cupboard is bear. Just abuse is no argument.

    So anyone out who still thinks May will be PM by the autumn or that there wont be another election within 6mths?
    I do for the following reasons.

    1. The Queen's speech will be written in such a way that the DUP will not vote against it and all Tories will vote for it.
    2. The Brown effect: every Tory knows there are serious issues with May campaigning in the election. However, I don't think they are willing to have a short career as PM.
    3. As well as Theresa's campaigning went. However, underestimating the youth vote and not red teaming the manifesto before its launch also had an impact on the result. So lessons will be learned and not repeated.
    4. Unless there is a vote of confidence in the government or the fixed term Parliament act the next election will be 2022. As I don't see permission will be sought to call an early election.

    I can see May lasting to potentially late 2018 early 2019. Beyond that it is anyone's guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    that entire logic is just incredible to me, a very similar thing got said in the main debate with all the parties before the election, it was actually said that building roads, schools and hospitals was a bad thing. Absolutely amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul143 View Post
    I do for the following reasons.

    1. The Queen's speech will be written in such a way that the DUP will not vote against it and all Tories will vote for it.
    2. The Brown effect: every Tory knows there are serious issues with May campaigning in the election. However, I don't think they are willing to have a short career as PM.
    3. As well as Theresa's campaigning went. However, underestimating the youth vote and not red teaming the manifesto before its launch also had an impact on the result. So lessons will be learned and not repeated.
    4. Unless there is a vote of confidence in the government or the fixed term Parliament act the next election will be 2022. As I don't see permission will be sought to call an early election.

    I can see May lasting to potentially late 2018 early 2019. Beyond that it is anyone's guess.
    they've just announced the Queens speech has been cancelled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    sure it is. and it'll work as long as the top 5% earners are willing to pay the increase in tax. then we'll have to support another couple of million immigrants under labour. yes we'll deal with it easily. new hospitals,schools,transport systems and higher wages for everyone. i can really see all these small companies being able to pay their workers 12 an hour......bang crash whallop
    I'd rather the social care system was bailed out than banks, at least we see the benefits of the social system...but the banks just absorb it all and increase our interest rates either way. Profit over people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    since 2010, 7 years, and constant complaints about the safety ... with Boris Johnson cutting the services... May the Police.... AND NOT BLAME the Tories? After 7 years? .... How much time do you need? A lifetime?

    Admittedly Labour didn't do anything either before that.... but I see hardly any difference between Tory-lite and Tory Government. Labour is different now.
    Although in terms of cuts - London fire brigade were still able to quickly increase the Grenfell fire to a 45 pump incident by the original site commander quickly assessing he is ill equipped to deal with the towering inferno so puts a call in that he needs back up ASAP.

    That included a rotation on the crews attending. Was 45 the right number I don't know but if it is above the optimum level then the resources available after the emergency call shouldn't be a factor. Yes there are issues that do need to be explored specifically dealing with the Grenfell tower but that is for another thread.
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  28. #58  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    that entire logic is just incredible to me, a very similar thing got said in the main debate with all the parties before the election, it was actually said that building roads, schools and hospitals was a bad thing. Absolutely amazing.
    The evil commies will have their way with us. McCarthyism both sides of the Atlantic.

    Up till the late 70's when Keynesian Economics had blown its own bubble and there were no excuses any more... the years leading up to that were boom times for the economy. For the people. We have had 40 years of Thatcherism now. The approx 35 years from 1945 to 1979 of Keynesian economics.

    I think we should go back to Keynesian economics for a while now. Tightening the belt of the majority of the population will cause undue harm and suffering. IF people can not see that, then I worry for the future of the UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    sure it is. and it'll work as long as the top 5% earners are willing to pay the increase in tax. then we'll have to support another couple of million immigrants under labour. yes we'll deal with it easily. new hospitals,schools,transport systems and higher wages for everyone. i can really see all these small companies being able to pay their workers 12 an hour......bang crash whallop
    I don't think you fully understand how investment works. The policy is very simple. You ask those with more to pay a little more. Plus you invest money in skills, education and industry.

    You don't have to borrow much more just invest in people rather than capital.

    Consider this possibility.............If companies cannot afford to pay a living wage it is simple because we haven't been keeping wages up allowing companies to adjust. The Conservative government has driven down wages so people cannot have a living wage.

    The crash you are incorrectly predicting with certainty is a construct of the party you support. If you want to push wages down under a living level that is absolutely immoral. The only way you can defend such a model is to create a system that pushes it down and then says it could not survive ant any more.

    I'm sure deep down you know this and that is why you voted for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    they've just announced the Queens speech has been cancelled.
    Not the imminent one; that's just been put back a few days. It's next year's that's been cancelled, as parliament will sit for two years, instead of one… to allow the Brexit talks/negotiations to continue without a long and disruptive break.
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