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Thread: Donald Trump POTUS...still...?

  1. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Trust me your opinion is mind blowing. You talk about the US your home being safe. However you absolutely defend the US to threaten Russia with missiles pointed at them, troops on the border, pushing for regime change in Ukraine and arming them whilst inviting them into an anti Russian coalition.

    That's absolutely mind blowing that you believe it is absolutely fine for the US to threaten Russia because you don't live in Russia but you cry like a baby at a few 'possibly' Russian leaked emails. That is absolutely mind blowing.

    Basically your opinion is wherever YOU LIVE can do absolutely whatever it wants to anywhere else but they dare not peek at your emails. It's utterly insane. Your morality is based on well whatever suits wherever I live.
    You either cannot read or you simply don't care what other posters are saying. Let me try this one last time:

    1) Nowhere did I "absolutely defend" anything. My opinion is that neither the US nor Russia nor any country in the world has any more or less of a right to do whatever it feels is in its best interest to do. It is fine for the US to threaten Russia just as it is fine for Russia to threaten the US.

    2) Nowhere did I "cry like a baby" over leaked emails. As I have now tried to explain to you several times, I am annoyed that the Trump administration isn't taking cyber warfare seriously enough. I don't care about the emails. I've never "cried" about the emails. It's not about the *********** emails. Please stop putting words in my mouth. It's rude.

    3) My opinion is not that the country I live in can do whatever it wants. You once again fail to grasp plain English. My opinion is that ANY country can do whatever it wants, but I hope for my own personal safety that the country I live in takes threats seriously.

    I don't know how much more clear than this I can be. FFS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    So Ossoff lost. 4th loss in a row for the centrist Dems, I believe.

    The Dems aren't learning the lessons. Do corporates donate to the Dems and dictate their campaigns, to make sure the lessons aren't learnt? i.e. Make sure republicans win?

    With everything going on in Washington, this should've be an open goal. Maybe a more aggressive campaign could've bridged the 4 points.
    They did everything wrong again. If Republican-lite policies weren't bad enough, this attitude of "we won't sink to their level" just means Republicans can attack them effectively without worrying about a response.
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    In my opinion stating that a country can do whatever it wants (bomb, murder, change regime) if it suits them is morally wrong. In my opinion if it is your belief that any nation can do whatever it wants to suit its own best interests then that by admission says that Russia can hack whatever it wants also.

    A single constant morality even if I don't agree.
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    "Wealthcare" Bill, classic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    In my opinion stating that a country can do whatever it wants (bomb, murder, change regime) if it suits them is morally wrong. In my opinion if it is your belief that any nation can do whatever it wants to suit its own best interests then that by admission says that Russia can hack whatever it wants also.

    A single constant morality even if I don't agree.
    Agreed. That is what I've been saying all along. I have no qualms with Russia doing what it believes is in its best interest to do, including waging cyber war against the US or any other country for that matter. As such, It is up to the US to make sure it is protected against it, as it is up to Russia to protect itself against American threats, etc. All is fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    "Wealthcare" Bill, classic.
    Pretty accurate as well. If you're wealthy or healthy it's great. If you actually need healthcare and can't pay for it you're **********. But the bill may not pass in its current form because some Republicans think it's still too generous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Pretty accurate as well. If you're wealthy or healthy it's great. If you actually need healthcare and can't pay for it you're **********. But the bill may not pass in its current form because some Republicans think it's still too generous.
    let me guess, Rand Paul is one of them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Pretty accurate as well. If you're wealthy or healthy it's great. If you actually need healthcare and can't pay for it you're **********. But the bill may not pass in its current form because some Republicans think it's still too generous.
    Why are the general population not kicking up a stink about this? They need to start using their vote to leverage these leeches out of power.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Pretty accurate as well. If you're wealthy or healthy it's great. If you actually need healthcare and can't pay for it you're **********. But the bill may not pass in its current form because some Republicans think it's still too generous.
    It goes against every bone in my body but I think, long term, what needs to happen under Trump and the Republicans is for some of this stuff to start getting through, so his dip**** supporters start feeling the affects.

    The Republicans still haven't managed to pass any decent legislature yet, and are still living off the back of "everything Obama did was wrong" - they know their supporters are right behind them in that. However, lets see how their supporters like the actual policies they are trying to pass.

    Like I said, it goes against my moral code; people shouldn't suffer, but there's also that sense of swathes of Americans getting what they deserve and hopefully coming round as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Why are the general population not kicking up a stink about this? They need to start using their vote to leverage these leeches out of power.
    Because its not affecting them, yet. They will buy the Republican gumpf until the reality hits them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    It goes against every bone in my body but I think, long term, what needs to happen under Trump and the Republicans is for some of this stuff to start getting through, so his dip**** supporters start feeling the affects.

    The Republicans still haven't managed to pass any decent legislature yet, and are still living off the back of "everything Obama did was wrong" - they know their supporters are right behind them in that. However, lets see how their supporters like the actual policies they are trying to pass.

    Like I said, it goes against my moral code; people shouldn't suffer, but there's also that sense of swathes of Americans getting what they deserve and hopefully coming round as a result.



    Because its not affecting them, yet. They will buy the Republican gumpf until the reality hits them.
    At which point prepare for the distraction of war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    let me guess, Rand Paul is one of them?
    Yup. Cruz too and a couple of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Why are the general population not kicking up a stink about this? They need to start using their vote to leverage these leeches out of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    It goes against every bone in my body but I think, long term, what needs to happen under Trump and the Republicans is for some of this stuff to start getting through, so his dip**** supporters start feeling the affects.

    The Republicans still haven't managed to pass any decent legislature yet, and are still living off the back of "everything Obama did was wrong" - they know their supporters are right behind them in that. However, lets see how their supporters like the actual policies they are trying to pass.

    Like I said, it goes against my moral code; people shouldn't suffer, but there's also that sense of swathes of Americans getting what they deserve and hopefully coming round as a result.

    Because its not affecting them, yet. They will buy the Republican gumpf until the reality hits them.
    The people we are discussing here are primarily the white, Christian, working class families from once booming industrial regions of America. They've been voting for both Democrats and Republicans on and off for decades. They've been screwed by both in equal measure because neither party really cares about them. Democrats don't like to hear this because we think of ourselves as the party of the good. But it was Jimmy Carter, not Ronald Reagan, who put the final nail in the coffin of the Ohio steel workers.

    Since then the Republicans have honed a narrative that is much more palatable to these voters than the story told by the Democrats. The Republicans' story is easier to understand and relate to plus they don't mind you owning guns and saying "Merry Christmas". They don't mind you not liking Mexicans and Arabs. They don't mind you being afraid of black people. They don't mind you going to church. They don't mind you being you. The Democrats, on the other hand, betrayed you and now they think you're dumb and deplorable.

    The Republicans can pass a healthcare bill from hell, and they may lose some votes, but they will not lose nearly as many as one would hope because the Democrats are not an appealing alternative on any level to many people in America. The Democrats need to get rid of their existing leadership and hand the party over to people who cannot be described as "Corporate Democrats".
    Last edited by Vortigen; 23-6-17 at 17:27.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Yup. Cruz too and a couple of others.





    The people we are discussing here are primarily the white, Christian, working class families from once booming industrial regions of America. They've been voting for both Democrats and Republicans on and off for decades. They've been screwed by both in equal measure because neither party really cares about them. Democrats don't like to hear this because we think of ourselves as the party of the good. But it was Jimmy Carter, not Ronald Reagan, who put the final nail in the coffin of the Ohio steel workers.

    Since then the Republicans have honed a narrative that is much more palatable to these voters than the story told by the Democrats. The Republicans' story is easier to understand and relate to plus they don't mind you owning guns and saying "Merry Christmas". They don't mind you not liking Mexicans and Arabs. They don't mind you being afraid of black people. They don't mind you going to church. They don't mind you being you. The Democrats, on the other hand, betrayed you and now they think you're dumb and deplorable.

    The Republicans can pass a healthcare bill from hell, and they may lose some votes, but they will not lose nearly as many as one would hope because the Democrats are not an appealing alternative on any level to many people in America. The Democrats need to get rid of their existing leadership and hand the party over to people who cannot be described as "Corporate Democrats".
    Uh oh, Louis is going to unfriend you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Yup. Cruz too and a couple of others.





    The people we are discussing here are primarily the white, Christian, working class families from once booming industrial regions of America. They've been voting for both Democrats and Republicans on and off for decades. They've been screwed by both in equal measure because neither party really cares about them. Democrats don't like to hear this because we think of ourselves as the party of the good. But it was Jimmy Carter, not Ronald Reagan, who put the final nail in the coffin of the Ohio steel workers.

    Since then the Republicans have honed a narrative that is much more palatable to these voters than the story told by the Democrats. The Republicans' story is easier to understand and relate to plus they don't mind you owning guns and saying "Merry Christmas". They don't mind you not liking Mexicans and Arabs. They don't mind you being afraid of black people. They don't mind you going to church. They don't mind you being you. The Democrats, on the other hand, betrayed you and now they think you're dumb and deplorable.

    The Republicans can pass a healthcare bill from hell, and they may lose some votes, but they will not lose nearly as many as one would hope because the Democrats are not an appealing alternative on any level to many people in America. The Democrats need to get rid of their existing leadership and hand the party over to people who cannot be described as "Corporate Democrats".
    Stop getting Hollywood involved as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    Uh oh, Louis is going to unfriend you.
    I hope not. I still think that on balance Democrats are better for the majority of Americans, if for no other reason than environmental policy. But they aren't as good as they ought to be and they especially weren't as good as they should have been in the 70s and the 80s. You cannot improve without realizing where you went wrong, and I'm not seeing much of that reflection among the democrats unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acumen View Post
    Stop getting Hollywood involved as well.
    I could use a little less commentary from actors and actresses, but I don't know how much the Democratic party can do to stop anyone from getting involved in issues they care about. I would like to see some of these Hollywood people go to a place like West Virginia and actually help people without being televised. Or go and film a documentary showing these people as human beings instead of as stereotypes. Do something to help bridge the cracks that are growing ever larger along the cultural lines in America. I don't know. There's gotta be a better use of fame than joking about killing the president.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    I hope not. I still think that on balance Democrats are better for the majority of Americans, if for no other reason than environmental policy. But they aren't as good as they ought to be and they especially weren't as good as they should have been in the 70s and the 80s. You cannot improve without realizing where you went wrong, and I'm not seeing much of that reflection among the democrats unfortunately.

    I could use a little less commentary from actors and actresses, but I don't know how much the Democratic party can do to stop anyone from getting involved in issues they care about. I would like to see some of these Hollywood people go to a place like West Virginia and actually help people without being televised. Or go and film a documentary showing these people as human beings instead of as stereotypes. Do something to help bridge the cracks that are growing ever larger along the cultural lines in America. I don't know. There's gotta be a better use of fame than joking about killing the president.
    Its become so clannish. I don't consider my self as a progressive or conservative, I'm pretty down the middle. There are somethings I'm more liberal on and some things I'm a bit more conservative on. I agree with you about this culture of mocking the other side. Its frankly childish, and toxic.

    My worry is that its about the get worse not better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acumen View Post
    Its become so clannish. I don't consider my self as a progressive or conservative, I'm pretty down the middle. There are somethings I'm more liberal on and some things I'm a bit more conservative on. I agree with you about this culture of mocking the other side. Its frankly childish, and toxic.

    My worry is that its about the get worse not better.
    I'm with you. The path we're on right now is not sustainable and it is definitely getting worse.

    My wife will not speak to anyone she knows voted for Trump. And how am I supposed to tell her (a black Muslim) that people who voted for Trump aren't at the very least condoning racism if they aren't racist themselves? And can I really tell her that she has no reason to be weary of the one neighbor down the street who still has his giant "Trump Pence" flag on a pole outside his house? She has every right to be worried and angry when every major hate group in America endorses the man who eventually becomes president and he does absolutely nothing to reassure the minorities and especially Muslims and the Latinos who are justifiably concerned.

    It's also very hard to remain centrist on issues related to things like race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and even the environment. None of these should have anything to do with politics, but they've in recent times become the centerpieces of most political platforms. It leaves very little room for compromise let alone camaraderie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    I'm with you. The path we're on right now is not sustainable and it is definitely getting worse.

    My wife will not speak to anyone she knows voted for Trump. And how am I supposed to tell her (a black Muslim) that people who voted for Trump aren't at the very least condoning racism if they aren't racist themselves? And can I really tell her that she has no reason to be weary of the one neighbor down the street who still has his giant "Trump Pence" flag on a pole outside his house? She has every right to be worried and angry when every major hate group in America endorses the man who eventually becomes president and he does absolutely nothing to reassure the minorities and especially Muslims and the Latinos who are justifiably concerned.

    It's also very hard to remain centrist on issues related to things like race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and even the environment. None of these should have anything to do with politics, but they've in recent times become the centerpieces of most political platforms. It leaves very little room for compromise let alone camaraderie.
    The fault in my opinion always lies with the ruling party or President. When you lead its for you to extend out your hand and bring in people. We have too much lip service, because underneath it all Democrats don't really want to work with Republicans and vice versa. Sadly, only the tax paying citizens end up suffering and foolishly keep taking sides when both are letting them down. Political affiliation has become almost quasi militant.
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    So Kushner met with Palestinian leaders and just recited word for word a list of Netanyahu's demands. It went down like a lead balloon, obviously.

    Apparently he will report back to Trump and there is talk the US may pull out of peace talks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    So Kushner met with Palestinian leaders and just recited word for word a list of Netanyahu's demands. It went down like a lead balloon, obviously.

    Apparently he will report back to Trump and there is talk the US may pull out of peace talks.
    Crazy conspiracy theory.

    Stop spouting anti Jewish rubbish...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    So Kushner met with Palestinian leaders and just recited word for word a list of Netanyahu's demands. It went down like a lead balloon, obviously.

    Apparently he will report back to Trump and there is talk the US may pull out of peace talks.
    I wonder if Trump is 'in on it' or the Israeli's are undermining him on purpose? They've approved a new illegal Jewish settlement in the West Bank for the first time in 25 years. They've been making them since but this one is state-approved, the first one since 1993.

    It doesn't sound like they've taken Trump's 'stop building settlements..' advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    Uh oh, Louis is going to unfriend you.
    Actually, I agree with what he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acumen View Post
    Stop getting Hollywood involved as well.
    You mean, like the current President?
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    Supreme Court allows the travel ban to go ahead...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    Supreme Court allows the travel ban to go ahead...
    They haven't really, but what they did is essentially signal that they will allow the ban once the case is actually reviewed in the fall. In the meantime, they sort of created a potential administrative nightmare. We'll see what happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    You mean, like the current President?
    I wouldn't call reality TV Hollywood. Its a lot worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    They haven't really, but what they did is essentially signal that they will allow the ban once the case is actually reviewed in the fall. In the meantime, they sort of created a potential administrative nightmare. We'll see what happens.
    And it wasn't unanimous.
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    So now Trump's strategy is to say 'Yes, there was Russia interference in our election, but Obama did nothing.'

    This doesn't seem like a good idea for many reasons. First of all, he's been lying about it for the past 10 months. 2nd, if he knew about it, did he do anything to use that information. 3rd, has he done anything since to stop it from happening again. 4th, knowing that Russia meddled in our election, why is he trying to lift sanctions and give them back their 'spy' sites?

    I hope he keeps tweeting forever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Yup. Cruz too and a couple of others.





    The people we are discussing here are primarily the white, Christian, working class families from once booming industrial regions of America. They've been voting for both Democrats and Republicans on and off for decades. They've been screwed by both in equal measure because neither party really cares about them. Democrats don't like to hear this because we think of ourselves as the party of the good. But it was Jimmy Carter, not Ronald Reagan, who put the final nail in the coffin of the Ohio steel workers.

    Since then the Republicans have honed a narrative that is much more palatable to these voters than the story told by the Democrats. The Republicans' story is easier to understand and relate to plus they don't mind you owning guns and saying "Merry Christmas". They don't mind you not liking Mexicans and Arabs. They don't mind you being afraid of black people. They don't mind you going to church. They don't mind you being you. The Democrats, on the other hand, betrayed you and now they think you're dumb and deplorable.

    The Republicans can pass a healthcare bill from hell, and they may lose some votes, but they will not lose nearly as many as one would hope because the Democrats are not an appealing alternative on any level to many people in America. The Democrats need to get rid of their existing leadership and hand the party over to people who cannot be described as "Corporate Democrats".
    Terrific post. The UK and US are just a socialist party away from getting some power back. That's why socialists are attacking by the globalists and the nationalists because they represent the real threat to the status quo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    And it wasn't unanimous.
    No, though I haven't looked into why the others voted against this particular course of action. I just saw Trump's boy was one of the dissenters, so I assumed it was because he felt any restrictions on it were a bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Terrific post. The UK and US are just a socialist party away from getting some power back. That's why socialists are attacking by the globalists and the nationalists because they represent the real threat to the status quo.
    I think it's really unlikely for a socialist party to ever win a national election in America. On the list of undesirable personal traits, most Americans would rank "socialist" somewhere below sexual deviant. The word has suffered so much abuse over the decades that it is now essentially synonymous with "detrimental to America".

    On the other hand, American political pendulum tends to swing wildly from one extreme to the other every 8 years, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the next American president being the most liberal one the country has ever had. However, it is also possible that Trump has ripped the pendulum out of its socket entirely, and that we will never see a progression towards a more economically and socially egalitarian political system. There is a very good chance that he may get to appoint as many as 2 additional Supreme Court judges, which would essentially be lights out for America for a couple of decades at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    No, though I haven't looked into why the others voted against this particular course of action. I just saw Trump's boy was one of the dissenters, so I assumed it was because he felt any restrictions on it were a bad idea.


    I think it's really unlikely for a socialist party to ever win a national election in America. On the list of undesirable personal traits, most Americans would rank "socialist" somewhere below sexual deviant. The word has suffered so much abuse over the decades that it is now essentially synonymous with "detrimental to America".

    On the other hand, American political pendulum tends to swing wildly from one extreme to the other every 8 years, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the next American president being the most liberal one the country has ever had. However, it is also possible that Trump has ripped the pendulum out of its socket entirely, and that we will never see a progression towards a more economically and socially egalitarian political system. There is a very good chance that he may get to appoint as many as 2 additional Supreme Court judges, which would essentially be lights out for America for a couple of decades at least.
    That's very worrying given that a balance has been maintained (couldn't tell you for how long but it looked pretty balanced before Trump was in power) to ensure the group has an equal(ish) number of conservative/liberal judges. If it does unbalance, I would hope that the judges realise this and look to maintain the balance either through a softening/hardening of their positions or stand down when a more liberal president gets into power.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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