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Thread: Donald Trump POTUS...still...?

  1. #2431  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    It just really wound me up at the time, and didn't help that I had a little drink either.
    There's your mistake. You need larger measures.
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  2. #2432  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    There's your mistake. You need larger measures.
    It was early in the day, it became a bigger drink later. The perils of the Christmas holiday.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodgersTBE View Post
    I like trump, he's clearly doing a great job with the American economy and I love how he always has the liberals crying their little eyes out.
    To paraphrase Monty Python, "spiteful tweets and internet trolling is no basis for a system of government".
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    I realize it is a 300 page document, but the Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS testimony before congress is extremely compelling and well worth a read:
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...Transcript.pdf
    It is amazing that the GOP has been sitting on this information since August (at least) and have all the while been obstructing the progress of the investigation and have continually placed party over country.
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  5. #2435  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    I realize it is a 300 page document, but the Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS testimony before congress is extremely compelling and well worth a read:
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...Transcript.pdf
    It is amazing that the GOP has been sitting on this information since August (at least) and have all the while been obstructing the progress of the investigation and have continually placed party over country.
    According to reports it adds little new but confirms or enforces much of what is already out there. The biggest items seem to be,
    * it enforces the recent information that the FBI did not use the Steele dossier to initiate investigations (they may not be using it at all because of its provenance) and
    * it enforces the argument that the republicans are actively trying to impeded the Meuller investigations


    It's release, along with the resurgent 'Russian attack on democracy' treason message, seems to be an indication the Dems are finally getting their act together on how to deal with this era of open lies, corrupt politics of the Trump administration.

    Dems broke the accepted norms/rules in releasing this information. This is dangerous but forced by the excess and degree of similar, worse behaviour of republicans and Trump.

    I'd advise caution however on any increase in expectations just yet. There's some evidence that Fusion GPS may be an apolitical, professional 'character assassination' outfit. But providing the dossier has been constructed in a correct and proper manner, that accusation can be managed in the context of current investigations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    According to reports it adds little new but confirms or enforces much of what is already out there. The biggest items seem to be,
    * it enforces the recent information that the FBI did not use the Steele dossier to initiate investigations (they may not be using it at all because of its provenance) and
    * it enforces the argument that the republicans are actively trying to impeded the Meuller investigations


    It's release, along with the resurgent 'Russian attack on democracy' treason message, seems to be an indication the Dems are finally getting their act together on how to deal with this era of open lies, corrupt politics of the Trump administration.

    Dems broke the accepted norms/rules in releasing this information. This is dangerous but forced by the excess and degree of similar, worse behaviour of republicans and Trump.

    I'd advise caution however on any increase in expectations just yet. There's some evidence that Fusion GPS may be an apolitical, professional 'character assassination' outfit. But providing the dossier has been constructed in a correct and proper manner, that accusation can be managed in the context of current investigations.
    I can't say I have any expectations, but my main hope with this whole thing is that we'll see the US step up its cyber security and information warfare counter measures in order to protect future elections. So far, nothing at all has been done. The intelligence community has been begging Washington for action as far back as 2014. The Simpson testimony shows just how little the GOP cares about this issue. It's as though they are actively counting on Russian support to win future elections.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    I can't say I have any expectations, but my main hope with this whole thing is that we'll see the US step up its cyber security and information warfare counter measures in order to protect future elections. So far, nothing at all has been done. The intelligence community has been begging Washington for action as far back as 2014. The Simpson testimony shows just how little the GOP cares about this issue. It's as though they are actively counting on Russian support to win future elections.
    All over the world, expecting your government to protect its people and its institutions from foreign aggression is fair and reasonable. That forms the thrust of the Dems new message followed by the fact that the republicans are (deliberately?) apparently doing nothing.
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    Not Trump specific but a great little cartoon on the American obsession with patriotism and war.

    https://thenib.com/the-good-war
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    Not Trump specific but a great little cartoon on the American obsession with patriotism and war.

    https://thenib.com/the-good-war
    Michael Bays Pearl Harbor is missing from that comic. And it was released in maj 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    Not Trump specific but a great little cartoon on the American obsession with patriotism and war.

    https://thenib.com/the-good-war
    I recall reading the article that this comic is based on some years ago. It takes some liberties and omits certain facts for the sake of style and argument, but it's a good write up nonetheless.

    Not having been born in America, I find the overbearing patriotism almost pathological and artificial to a great degree. I also don't think it stems so much from love of country but from personal insecurities.

    One thing that always pops into my head when thinking of this topic is that stupid Lee Greenwood song because I think it's a great illustration of American patriotism. Here's a sample:

    If tomorrow all the things were gone I'd worked for all my life,
    And I had to start again with just my children and my wife.
    I'd thank my lucky stars to be living here today,
    'Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away.

    And I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free.
    And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
    And I'd gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
    'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.
    It's a perfect reflection of an emotionally and financially insecure man clinging onto a myth to elevate his stature in life. And it goes perfectly with American guns, war, and god culture as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    I recall reading the article that this comic is based on some years ago. It takes some liberties and omits certain facts for the sake of style and argument, but it's a good write up nonetheless.

    Not having been born in America, I find the overbearing patriotism almost pathological and artificial to a great degree. I also don't think it stems so much from love of country but from personal insecurities.

    One thing that always pops into my head when thinking of this topic is that stupid Lee Greenwood song because I think it's a great illustration of American patriotism. Here's a sample:



    It's a perfect reflection of an emotionally and financially insecure man clinging onto a myth to elevate his stature in life. And it goes perfectly with American guns, war, and god culture as well.
    Where are you and all your sanctimonious **** from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Not having been born in America, I find the overbearing patriotism almost pathological and artificial to a great degree. I also don't think it stems so much from love of country but from personal insecurities. .
    I agree, but think the right word is "superficial". This image below always summed it up for me. I've found since being here that people think hanging a flag or constantly stating how great America is (despite being unable to explain why) makes them patriotic, when in fact they are far less prepared to do anything for their fellow citizens as people from other countries. There is this huge oxymoron that exists between a country that goes to such great lengths to explain how great they are as a whole yet has the most selfish and individualistic attitude I've come across.

    http://i.imgur.com/vXH8AIL.jpg
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  13. #2443  
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    The POTUS, the President Of The United States, said this today;


    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/u...3&ref=cta&_r=0



    Polls; https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-approval.html




    Courtesy of the New York Times





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSur...&feature=share


    Says a lot.


    ,
    Last edited by Socratease; 12-1-18 at 00:03.
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngriestRed View Post
    Where are you and all your sanctimonious **** from?
    We’re from Scotland.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    I agree, but think the right word is "superficial". This image below always summed it up for me. I've found since being here that people think hanging a flag or constantly stating how great America is (despite being unable to explain why) makes them patriotic, when in fact they are far less prepared to do anything for their fellow citizens as people from other countries. There is this huge oxymoron that exists between a country that goes to such great lengths to explain how great they are as a whole yet has the most selfish and individualistic attitude I've come across.

    http://i.imgur.com/vXH8AIL.jpg
    Spot on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngriestRed View Post
    Where are you and all your sanctimonious **** from?
    That escalated quickly. You really are the Angriest Red!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    We’re from Scotland.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    I agree, but think the right word is "superficial". This image below always summed it up for me. I've found since being here that people think hanging a flag or constantly stating how great America is (despite being unable to explain why) makes them patriotic, when in fact they are far less prepared to do anything for their fellow citizens as people from other countries. There is this huge oxymoron that exists between a country that goes to such great lengths to explain how great they are as a whole yet has the most selfish and individualistic attitude I've come across.

    http://i.imgur.com/vXH8AIL.jpg
    This always gets me in some films from the states. You'll be really enjoying a cracking film, then an over the top patriotic bit kicks in and it jars badly. Its surprising how many films shoe horn this kind of thing in them when it isn't needed.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratease View Post
    The POTUS, the President Of The United States, said this today;


    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/u...3&ref=cta&_r=0



    Polls; https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-approval.html




    Courtesy of the New York Times





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSur...&feature=share


    Says a lot.


    ,
    Norway is the richest country in Europe with a population above 500000.,
    yeah they will move to the US
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    We’re from Scotland
    Ok... Beautiful place... Why did you come to America? You seem to hate and complain about absolutely everything here... On top of that apparently we display plastic patriotism... You gonna tell me that I love my ****** country because I’m insecure? You gonna tell me that I slogged through tunnels in Afghanistan because I wanted to be some war hero like I would read about in school?! Also I mainly want to address that cartoon that you and others liked so much... Something you need to understand is that most of us who have fought for this country have done so despite the politics not because of the politics... I only cared about the men next to me and not about what the political goals of America were... Didn’t give a **** about that... I and every other man did what we had to to make sure we came home and it’s that simple...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngriestRed View Post
    Ok... Beautiful place... Why did you come to America? You seem to hate and complain about absolutely everything here... On top of that apparently we display plastic patriotism... You gonna tell me that I love my ****** country because I’m insecure? You gonna tell me that I slogged through tunnels in Afghanistan because I wanted to be some war hero like I would read about in school?! Also I mainly want to address that cartoon that you and others liked so much... Something you need to understand is that most of us who have fought for this country have done so despite the politics not because of the politics... I only cared about the men next to me and not about what the political goals of America were... Didn’t give a **** about that... I and every other man did what we had to to make sure we came home and it’s that simple...
    My father is American. He was a soldier like yourself and he later became a diplomat. At the time I was born, he was working in Northern Ireland but the family lived in Scotland. Years later, my father got a desk job in DC, so the whole family moved with him. I stayed behind though to finish my undergraduate degree. I got my Masters degree and JD in America; took the foreign service exam and joined the State Department in '99.

    I don't hate America. I wouldn't have worked for its government for 18 years if I did. I am very critical of America though just as you may be critical of Liverpool Football Club. It's not out of hate but out of desire to see it be better.

    We have an astronomical defense budget yet every year we have less and less to defend because our politicians pawn away our land and resources to corporations. And the greatest resource of all - the people living in this country, are marginalized and robbed of basic financial security, again for the sake of corporate profit. That is worth criticizing I think.

    This country has the ability to do so much better for its people, but it's priority is doing better for only the smallest percentage of them. I cannot in good conscience salute the flag and praise America while millions of Americans struggle to feed themselves. I cannot glorify war and America's military while veterans are dying homeless in America's streets and have laughable medical benefits.

    I would honor veterans not by standing for the national anthem but by taking some of that $600 billion the DoD gets every year and buying them all decent health insurance and housing. And the same goes for the families of the ones who died. I would institute a 4 day work week but make 8 hours of weekly community service mandatory for every able bodied US resident. That to me is patriotism. It's caring for the people of your country because they ARE the country.

    Lastly, my comments about American patriotism were general and are based on personal experience and impressions. I don't know you and can't speak to what you think and feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    I agree, but think the right word is "superficial". This image below always summed it up for me. I've found since being here that people think hanging a flag or constantly stating how great America is (despite being unable to explain why) makes them patriotic, when in fact they are far less prepared to do anything for their fellow citizens as people from other countries. There is this huge oxymoron that exists between a country that goes to such great lengths to explain how great they are as a whole yet has the most selfish and individualistic attitude I've come across.
    Spot on as someone else said. And why are they so surprised others don't like them, their attitude, the ridiculous notion THEY have about being the best

    If America was so great then this thread would not exist because a farce like that election would not have happened
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    How can America be great when even Trump itself won the election under the slogon " Make America great again ".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    My father is American. He was a soldier like yourself and he later became a diplomat. At the time I was born, he was working in Northern Ireland but the family lived in Scotland. Years later, my father got a desk job in DC, so the whole family moved with him. I stayed behind though to finish my undergraduate degree. I got my Masters degree and JD in America; took the foreign service exam and joined the State Department in '99.

    I don't hate America. I wouldn't have worked for its government for 18 years if I did. I am very critical of America though just as you may be critical of Liverpool Football Club. It's not out of hate but out of desire to see it be better.

    We have an astronomical defense budget yet every year we have less and less to defend because our politicians pawn away our land and resources to corporations. And the greatest resource of all - the people living in this country, are marginalized and robbed of basic financial security, again for the sake of corporate profit. That is worth criticizing I think.

    This country has the ability to do so much better for its people, but it's priority is doing better for only the smallest percentage of them. I cannot in good conscience salute the flag and praise America while millions of Americans struggle to feed themselves. I cannot glorify war and America's military while veterans are dying homeless in America's streets and have laughable medical benefits.

    I would honor veterans not by standing for the national anthem but by taking some of that $600 billion the DoD gets every year and buying them all decent health insurance and housing. And the same goes for the families of the ones who died. I would institute a 4 day work week but make 8 hours of weekly community service mandatory for every able bodied US resident. That to me is patriotism. It's caring for the people of your country because they ARE the country.

    Lastly, my comments about American patriotism were general and are based on personal experience and impressions. I don't know you and can't speak to what you think and feel.
    I appreciate you sharing this... You obviously know what you are talking about considering you work at the State Department(props to you I couldn’t do it)... Like you don’t know me I don’t know you and at times it could sound like you’ve been here not all that long but want to have a go at everything and sometimes when that’s the case I wonder why one would be here... You make valid points as far as the defense budget is concerned and it could be toned down a bit for sure... At the same time I have benefited from that same budget so I’m kind of in two minds about the spend... I don’t feel like War is exactly glorified as much as people need to know some of these stories... Maybe it is.. I don’t pay attention to most of the War angle/talk as maybe I should because I’m quite jaded if I’m being honest and just don’t care I guess... Same could be said for a lot of the current political climate... I just want to enjoy my wife and kids, sports and other hobbies without everything coming back to politics... America is no perfect place and I understand that and know we need to do better... Most importantly you represent exactly what our country is about... I don’t agree with everything you say politically but you are free to feel that way, free to question the status quo, etc.. and we need people who do that... I may have goes at you in the future over this issue or that, but know it’s only from a place of disagreement not a superiority of my views matter and yours don’t(which many Americans are guilty of).... Once again appreciate the share it’s always good to get more background on some of the folks I spar with on here


    Still wonder why anyone would want to leave a place as beautiful and serene as Scotland
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  23. #2453  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaDrOsKi View Post
    How can America be great when even Trump itself won the election under the slogon " Make America great again ".
    "MAGA" is code for "let's roll back America to the pre-Civil Rights era".

    Some would go even further back.
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    Trump getting blamed by Liberals for the state employee mistake in Hawaii. It's almost comical at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngriestRed View Post
    Ok... Beautiful place... Why did you come to America? You seem to hate and complain about absolutely everything here... On top of that apparently we display plastic patriotism... You gonna tell me that I love my ****** country because I’m insecure? You gonna tell me that I slogged through tunnels in Afghanistan because I wanted to be some war hero like I would read about in school?! Also I mainly want to address that cartoon that you and others liked so much... Something you need to understand is that most of us who have fought for this country have done so despite the politics not because of the politics... I only cared about the men next to me and not about what the political goals of America were... Didn’t give a **** about that... I and every other man did what we had to to make sure we came home and it’s that simple...
    Well said brother. Can you imagine truly loving your country and get told, " Hey stop with the fake patriotism, just shows how insecure and racist you are."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Trump getting blamed by Liberals for the state employee mistake in Hawaii. It's almost comical at this point.



    Well said brother. Can you imagine truly loving your country and get told, " Hey stop with the fake patriotism, just shows how insecure and racist you are."
    But thats what it is. Its being practised by those who arent patriots but wanting to line the pockets of the richest 5% of the country. That isnt patriotism thats greed.
    Its the same here with the Brexiters -they dont give a flying fox about control, parliamentary soveriegnty or the British people, its about greed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Trump getting blamed by Liberals for the state employee mistake in Hawaii. It's almost comical at this point.



    Well said brother. Can you imagine truly loving your country and get told, " Hey stop with the fake patriotism, just shows how insecure and racist you are."
    No one is saying stop the fake patriotism, they are saying back up a token American flag hanging outside your home with actual care for your country and fellow countrymen. Cutting Social Security and Medicare, stopping foodstamps, culling Obamacare without replacing it with something better so millions will lose health insurance, being the only country in the world to not offer maternity leave, I could go on - all while increasing military spending and expansion while supporting huge tax cuts for the wealthy is not patriotism. Patriotism isn't voting against the best interests of 90% of your compatriots. Patriotism isn't supporting someone who is quite obviously dividing the country along racial lines.

    And saying these things doesn't make someone un-American or anti-American. Questioning your government is part and parcel of patriotism; the forefathers that the right creams themselves over literally said as much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngriestRed View Post
    I appreciate you sharing this... You obviously know what you are talking about considering you work at the State Department(props to you I couldn’t do it)... Like you don’t know me I don’t know you and at times it could sound like you’ve been here not all that long but want to have a go at everything and sometimes when that’s the case I wonder why one would be here... You make valid points as far as the defense budget is concerned and it could be toned down a bit for sure... At the same time I have benefited from that same budget so I’m kind of in two minds about the spend... I don’t feel like War is exactly glorified as much as people need to know some of these stories... Maybe it is.. I don’t pay attention to most of the War angle/talk as maybe I should because I’m quite jaded if I’m being honest and just don’t care I guess... Same could be said for a lot of the current political climate... I just want to enjoy my wife and kids, sports and other hobbies without everything coming back to politics... America is no perfect place and I understand that and know we need to do better... Most importantly you represent exactly what our country is about... I don’t agree with everything you say politically but you are free to feel that way, free to question the status quo, etc.. and we need people who do that... I may have goes at you in the future over this issue or that, but know it’s only from a place of disagreement not a superiority of my views matter and yours don’t(which many Americans are guilty of).... Once again appreciate the share it’s always good to get more background on some of the folks I spar with on here


    Still wonder why anyone would want to leave a place as beautiful and serene as Scotland
    Midges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Trump getting blamed by Liberals for the state employee mistake in Hawaii. It's almost comical at this point.
    That was horrendous, wonder how far the investigation will go in terms of jobs lost and what would be sensible with a review of the ease with which someone can press a button (by mistake)

    Just trust any "nuke launch" buttons the president has on his desk aren't as easy to press, and not by mistake either! (I know it's not that simple to launch a nuke, it's TIC)
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    But thats what it is. Its being practised by those who arent patriots but wanting to line the pockets of the richest 5% of the country. That isnt patriotism thats greed.
    Its the same here with the Brexiters -they dont give a flying fox about control, parliamentary soveriegnty or the British people, its about greed.
    You don't half hate the rich. You must be very poor.
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    Just had a good laugh at the girther movement, I had no idea this was a thing.

    A little look at it is in this article.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cracy-congress
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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