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Thread: Van runs over civilians outside Finsbury Park Mosque

  1. #511  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    *********** hell. That's no way to live. Stay safe man

    I agree btw
    Thanks brother.
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  2. #512  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    Err the 2003 invasion of Iraq was a direct result of 9/11 and W.Bush and D.Cheney following on from the first Gulf war. Other senior American and British politicians have said so, that's not a conspiracy theory. It's fact.
    Yes...that's true...but I'm on about conspiracy theories about 9/11 itself...which is one sure way to get this thread closed.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  3. #513  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Yes...that's true...but I'm on about conspiracy theories about 9/11 itself...which is one sure way to get this thread closed.
    Putin stated the other day that he believes in the official story
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  4. #514  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    i do hope that you do not think islam is any different then any other religion or ideology
    I know about Islam more than most and I have seen first hand what destruction it can cause when it becomes the most important thing in a country. Islamic law has no place in modern society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKloppo View Post
    I know about Islam more than most and I have seen first hand what destruction it can cause when it becomes the most important thing in a country. Islamic law has no place in modern society.
    Could say the same about christianity. Specially in eastern europe post communistic secularism. From one extreme to another
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  6. #516  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Could say the same about christianity. Specially in eastern europe post communistic secularism. From one extreme to another
    Don't know much about that. What I do know is that Christianity has been reformed over the years which cannot and will not happen with Islam unless you force it like Saudi Arabia were forced to stop slavery. So we have a bigger problem than people realise.
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  7. #517  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKloppo View Post
    Don't know much about that. What I do know is that Christianity has been reformed over the years which cannot and will not happen with Islam unless you force it like Saudi Arabia were forced to stop slavery. So we have a bigger problem than people realise.
    Only protenstantism have been reformed, not really the catholics, orthodox and the coptic church.
    Weird is that some of the most agressive ones are sub sects of protenstantism
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  8. #518  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Do people who hate muslims, and vice versa know that they are the same?
    Do people really hate Muslims? They hardly have a choice, do they, considering apostasy is to be dealt with by executing the apostate. I'd say 80 percent are harmless and innocent. They hardly know about their religion. I mean what is relevant to people in the West. The problem is places where the Saudis have put up Islamic schools 20-30 years ago, those people and places are incredibly scary. And entire generation of extremists. Also encouraged to reproduce like rabbits because it is God's will.
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  9. #519  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKloppo View Post
    Do people really hate Muslims? They hardly have a choice, do they, considering apostasy is to be dealt with by executing the apostate. I'd say 80 percent are harmless and innocent. They hardly know about their religion. I mean what is relevant to people in the West. The problem is places where the Saudis have put up Islamic schools 20-30 years ago, those people and places are incredibly scary. And entire generation of extremists. Also encouraged to reproduce like rabbits because it is God's will.
    I do agree on the saudis. They and wahhabism is the problem. A good way to stop a good part of the influence is not just to cut the finances. But to have a theological education for priests.
    Same as for christians.
    As for the saudis. Their influence is not just in europe, many muslim countries are under the influence of them
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  10. #520  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    I do agree on the saudis. They and wahhabism is the problem. A good way to stop a good part of the influence is not just to cut the finances. But to have a theological education for priests.
    Same as for christians.
    As for the saudis. Their influence is not just in europe, many muslim countries are under the influence of them
    Those Muslim countries are what I'm talking about when I say scary places. I live in one of those countries and you can't imagine the gravity of the situation. Basically a whole nation from the 14th century. 200 million strong.

    Who can stop the Saudis? Certainly not 3rd world countries when the West have not been able to do anything about them. Or maybe the West have enabled them
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOPGIRL1971 View Post
    You are mistaking Islamaphobia for having an opinion that is against yours. This is a debating forum. I have an opinion, if you don't like it, tough. It's called freedom of speech and, so long as I don't practice hate speech, which I most definitely am not doing, I am entitled to speak my mind.

    If more open debate had been allowed in this country for the last decade maybe w would not be living in such dangerous times.

    As for sitting next to you at Anfield, have no worries - my Muslim neighbours think I'm great and agree with a lot of what I say but, then, they are integrated into society, not stuck in ethnic ghettos, which I see as the root problem.
    Good on you KG. I may not agree with yr views but yr point is sound. The only thing id agree to disagree on is when you say "if more open debate had been allowed...." What do you mean by this? Also ethnic ghettos? Who put them in those?
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  12. #522  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKloppo View Post
    I was born into it. In a country and culture where this is the most important thing in the world. Indoctrination from a young age will make you believe almost anything.
    So what is it you left the religion?
    ?
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  13. #523  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKloppo View Post
    Those Muslim countries are what I'm talking about when I say scary places. I live in one of those countries and you can't imagine the gravity of the situation. Basically a whole nation from the 14th century. 200 million strong.

    Who can stop the Saudis? Certainly not 3rd world countries when the West have not been able to do anything about them. Or maybe the West have enabled them
    The west have enabled them.
    Lots of scary places in the world that are none muslim.
    They had internet in the 14.century?
    I think i know what country your from. If im right i know people from there who are not happy with the slow turning away from the countries tradition, and more towards the arabic traditions
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    So what is it you left the religion?

    Isnt that more something subjective and personal? Its not like you just sign out, or write a letter to your local imam
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  15. #525  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Isnt that more something subjective and personal? Its not like you just sign out, or write a letter to your local imam
    No just trying to understand Kloppos understanding. I don't agree with the salafi and wahabi sect but Saudi are massive allies with the UK and US. As for the Islamic law imo in a Islamic country Islamic law is fine why do I need to get involved same goes for the UK we don't need sharia law here and I think 99% of Muslims would agree we don't need sharia law in the UK.
    ?
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  16. #526  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    The west have enabled them.
    Lots of scary places in the world that are none muslim.
    They had internet in the 14.century?
    I think i know what country your from. If im right i know people from there who are not happy with the slow turning away from the countries tradition, and more towards the arabic traditions
    Man, come on. WE know that scary places exist that are not Muslim. You really should acknowledge that some scary places exist because they are muslim

    .....
    Last edited by Jannno; 20-6-17 at 22:23. Reason: careful with your wording LD. We don't want to publicise things that add to fear by singling out named groups
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  17. #527  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Man, just stop. WE know that scary places exist that are not Muslim. You really should acknowledge that some scary places exist because they are muslim
    .....
    is not a problem people are.
    Last edited by Jannno; 20-6-17 at 22:24. Reason: ....
    ?
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  18. #528  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    ... is not a problem people are.
    I don't agree I'm afraid
    I think both are.
    Last edited by Jannno; 20-6-17 at 22:24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKloppo View Post
    What Liverdinner has said is 100 percent correct. About Islamophobia. Make up a new word about Muslims. Since when is criticising a bad idea racist?
    It's not. But that isn't what a lot of people are doing. They are discriminating against all Muslims and are outright hateful, go read the DM comment section if you want proof. You can call it racist, bigoted, whatever you like, it amounts to the same thing and it's vile.
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  20. #530  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    I don't agree I'm afraid
    I think both are.
    That's fine I'm telling you as a Muslim.
    ?
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  21. #531  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    That's fine I'm telling you as a Muslim.
    And I'm rejecting that

    .....
    Last edited by Jannno; 20-6-17 at 22:25.
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  22. #532  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    And I'm rejecting that

    ....
    ....
    Last edited by Jannno; 20-6-17 at 22:25.
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  23. #533  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    It's not. But that isn't what a lot of people are doing. They are discriminating against all Muslims and are outright hateful, go read the DM comment section if you want proof. You can call it racist, bigoted, whatever you like, it amounts to the same thing and it's vile.
    What you need to appreciate imo, is that it's a spectrum.

    Sure some criticism is nuts, but a lot is fair and valid.
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  24. #534  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    What you need to appreciate imo, is that it's a spectrum.

    Sure some criticism is nuts, but a lot is fair and valid.
    I do appreciate that. In fact I agree that 'Islamophobia' is not a very good term, as there is a clear distinction between people who criticise some ideologies present in Islam, and people who are outright racist *****, yet they are all under this same umbrella. You are not happy that Islamophobia is used to describe the former, and I don't like the fact it's used to 'normalise' the latter.
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  25. #535  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    I do appreciate that. In fact I agree that 'Islamophobia' is not a very good term, as there is a clear distinction between people who criticise some ideologies present in Islam, and people who are outright racist *****, yet they are all under this same umbrella. You are not happy that Islamophobia is used to describe the former, and I don't like the fact it's used to 'normalise' the latter.
    I think that's fair.

    We should probably just refer to it as prejudice or racism or whatever it is in the incident
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