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Thread: FSG.....Wimps or what?

  1. #151  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acapulco1 View Post
    The owners do not pick the team or train the team. They merely support the manager. Make no mistake about it we have good owners.
    I agree but they're not "out and out winners".
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurreyLiverpoolFan1983 View Post
    I think people forget FSG have no say in transfers in relation to who they actually sign - all they are concerned about is the cost of the transfer and the justification behind it

    previously we have had scenario's of a manager targeting players but not having the authority or pure single mindedness to go with his belief - ie. Rodgers with Van Dijk and Salah, both who probably should of already been at the club - why Rodgers didn't back up his own belief can be argued all day long and to be honest irrelevant now

    We have a manager who's singled minded in wanting Keita and Van Dijk and will not allow scouts or FSG officials to do what they did to Rodgers and make him go for other options

    FSG have made mistakes in the past purely based on who they employed and listened to and not trusting the manager they had in place, it seems that stance has now changed

    FSG have never not backed a manager with cash, just gone the wrong way about it at times

    let this summer play out and see where we are, if we manage to land Keita and Van Dijk as expected, we'll be very much stronger going in to the season than last season

    In terms of if FSG have been good owners or not, guess that cant be answered....until the day they leave

    If they stay 50 years and win loads of trophies, these 8 years so far will be looked back on as a period of stability and growth before the good times, then guess we call them good owners
    If they leave next year and have 1 carling cup to there name, can't really call it successful

    people will make mistakes along the way in all forms of life, no different as owners of a football club
    Excellent post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmreSam View Post
    Why can't there be a middle ground? They're not saints but at the same time they're not bad owners.

    It was the right decision to sack Kenny.

    Ticket prices again they were in the wrong.

    Their first choice manager after Kenny was Klopp but he stayed loyal to Dortmund. Rodgers seemed the best option at the time, and let's not pretend he's not one of the best in the world at talking the talk. The committee is linked in with Rodgers as he refused to work with a DoF. Also if it wasn't for one literal slip, you wouldn't be calling him a bogus appointment.

    Chang - you'll have to explain mate, no idea about that.

    Showing up at Anfield once or twice a season - well no ****, they live across the Atlantic.

    At the end of the day you can accuse BWM for ignorance but it's a bit hypocritical when you're just as ignorant yourself when discussing FSG. There is allowed to be a middle ground, and that's pretty much where they are.
    Maybe it was the right decision to sack Kenny. That's not the point though.

    It was the manner in which they handled his final days. Refusing to shake his hand after losing the FA Cup final, summoning him on a flight to Boston rather than getting off their own lazy candy arses and flying over themselves, sending him back to England without a job and then glorifying Rodgers as the second coming of Jesus in that sorry excuse of a documentary.

    As someone who respects the clubs traditions and legends, that will always rankle with me. Says a lot about them as people.

    And the fact that Rodgers demanding that he wouldn't work for a DoF made them change their plans just shows how small minded and stupid they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    No, Ian Ayre said no other party produced proof of funds when requested.
    BS....

    While Sir Martin did not name the second bidder, remaining bound by confidentiality, court documents in America as part of an ongoing legal dispute there have revealed it to be Peter Lim, the Singapore businessman who went on to buy Valencia.

    Sir Martin said: “I’ve never disclosed the identity of the second bidder, whether it’s general knowledge or not it’s not for me to say.

    But both bidders were entirely credible, both bidders came on to the scene quite late but arrived at very, very similar values which actually comforted me that that was the market value for the club (around 300m).

    Sir Martin also revealed that one of the bidders had been brought into the process by Ian Ayre.

    He did not reveal which one though Ayre’s longstanding business links to the Far East might suggest it was Lim and it may have been Ayre who voted for their bid.


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...artin-10216116


    Apology accepted
    Last edited by reallash; 18-7-17 at 13:29.
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  5. #155  
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    BS....

    While Sir Martin did not name the second bidder, remaining bound by confidentiality, court documents in America as part of an ongoing legal dispute there have revealed it to be Peter Lim, the Singapore businessman who went on to buy Valencia.

    Sir Martin said: “I’ve never disclosed the identity of the second bidder, whether it’s general knowledge or not it’s not for me to say.

    But both bidders were entirely credible, both bidders came on to the scene quite late but arrived at very, very similar values which actually comforted me that that was the market value for the club (around 300m).

    Sir Martin also revealed that one of the bidders had been brought into the process by Ian Ayre.

    He did not reveal which one though Ayre’s longstanding business links to the Far East might suggest it was Lim and it may have been Ayre who voted for their bid.


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...artin-10216116


    Apology accepted
    Both may have been credible, but only one produced proof of funds! and the alternative to FSG was Peter Lim!! bottom line it was FSG or Lim, so you must be very happy it was FSG that won that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    Both may have been credible, but only one produced proof of funds! and the alternative to FSG was Peter Lim!! bottom line it was FSG or Lim, so you must be very happy it was FSG that won that one.
    So, there were two bidders that were entirely credible, by this I assume Broughton was referring to the bid/finances and not to the likability of the bidders. SO, both, that is 2 bidders were present. It matters not what transpired, the fact is there were 2 credible bidders, OK? Indeed, Broughton said........I think I would have been happy with either bidder Seems a little remiss of him if finances were not in place for both bids. Add to that, the board was split on Lim and FSG on the vote, again, a little remiss unless both parties had presented a full financial account.

    I also find it rather amusing that you use Ayre as proof that only one credible bid existed, when Broughton insinuated that it was Ayre who actually brought Lim into the process, meaning Ayre clearly knew that more than one credible bid existed.
    Last edited by reallash; 18-7-17 at 14:19.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    Both may have been credible, but only one produced proof of funds! and the alternative to FSG was Peter Lim!! bottom line it was FSG or Lim, so you must be very happy it was FSG that won that one.
    Yeah, I really don't see where Reallash is going with this one.

    Broughton and co obviously thought FSG was the preferable option, and the past few years have proven them far better owners than Lim. So it seems a pretty pointless discussion.

    Edit: But having read back over the thread, he's completely correct that FSG got Liverpool on the cheap. No doubt about it. Also no doubt that they aren't here for the love of the club - as shown by the annual Anfield appearance. Not that any of that makes them particularly bad owners, or amoral people.
    Last edited by Alpha Papa; 18-7-17 at 14:03.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Papa View Post
    Yeah, I really don't see where Reallash is going with this one.

    Broughton and co obviously thought FSG was the preferable option, and the past few years have proven them far better owners than Lim. So it seems a pretty pointless discussion.

    Edit: But having read back over the thread, he's completely correct that FSG got Liverpool on the cheap. No doubt about it. Also no doubt that they aren't here for the love of the club - as shown by the annual Anfield appearance. Not that any of that makes them particularly bad owners, or amoral people.
    FSG bought the club at a bottom value due to the depleted state of the club at the time, a bit like a house that needs fully renovating, call them property developers if you wish? Today LFC is worth c.1.1b but its taken a big investment in time and money from FSG themselves as well as increased TV money to reach that value. Lim, FSG and Forbes all had similar values of LFC at the time which says a lot. FSG dont love the club, dont think anyone has ever stated that and they have made mistakes (who hasn't) but so far they are good owners and yes, the alternative was Peter Lim!! so how can people be upset that FSG own us not Lim, its madness. To date FSG have not taken 1p in Div payments from LFC and they have funded the Main Stand and c.100m worth of signings under Rodgers. IMO people dont like FSG because they are jealous of City et al. That's it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    So, there were two bidders that were entirely credible, by this I assume Broughton was referring to the bid/finances and not to the likability of the bidders. SO, both, that is 2 bidders were present. It matters not what transpired, the fact is there were 2 credible bidders, OK? Indeed, Broughton said........I think I would have been happy with either bidder Seems a little remiss of him if finances were not in place for both bids. Add to that, the board was split on Lim and FSG on the vote, again, a little remiss unless both parties had presented a full financial account.

    I also find it rather amusing that you use Ayre as proof that only one credible bid existed, when Broughton insinuated that it was Ayre who actually brought Lim into the process, meaning Ayre clearly knew that more than one credible bid existed.
    Would you rather Peter Lim have bought us? yes or no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    FSG bought the club at a bottom value due to the depleted state of the club at the time, a bit like a house that needs fully renovating, call them property developers if you wish? Today LFC is worth c.1.1b but its taken a big investment in time and money from FSG themselves as well as increased TV money to reach that value. Lim, FSG and Forbes all had similar values of LFC at the time which says a lot. FSG dont love the club, dont think anyone has ever stated that and they have made mistakes (who hasn't) but so far they are good owners and yes, the alternative was Peter Lim!! so how can people be upset that FSG own us not Lim, its madness. To date FSG have not taken 1p in Div payments from LFC and they have funded the Main Stand and c.100m worth of signings under Rodgers. IMO people dont like FSG because they are jealous of City et al. That's it.
    Where did you get that from?

    I'm pretty sure FSG's value of LFC was about half of what Forbes valued it at.

    And FSG have made it v clear they won't invest their own money - but will run the club to break even. Hence the loans. Again, I'm not saying that makes them terrible owners, but we shouldn't pretend that they didn't get an incredibly sweet deal on the club.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    FSG bought the club at a bottom value due to the depleted state of the club at the time, a bit like a house that needs fully renovating, call them property developers if you wish? Today LFC is worth c.1.1b but its taken a big investment in time and money from FSG themselves as well as increased TV money to reach that value. Lim, FSG and Forbes all had similar values of LFC at the time which says a lot. FSG dont love the club, dont think anyone has ever stated that and they have made mistakes (who hasn't) but so far they are good owners and yes, the alternative was Peter Lim!! so how can people be upset that FSG own us not Lim, its madness. To date FSG have not taken 1p in Div payments from LFC and they have funded the Main Stand and c.100m worth of signings under Rodgers. IMO people dont like FSG because they are jealous of City et al. That's it.
    Oh, so there was another credible bidder, thought you said only one existed? This is what the recent posts are about, clearly another party was credible. I am not upset about anything, just want to get things straight - FSG were not the only credible bidders as you suggested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    Would you rather Peter Lim have bought us? yes or no.
    Is this your apology then?

    I said more than one credible bid existed, you said NO. I show you evidence that 2 credible bids existed, and this is your reply - grow up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    So, there were two bidders that were entirely credible, by this I assume Broughton was referring to the bid/finances and not to the likability of the bidders. SO, both, that is 2 bidders were present. It matters not what transpired, the fact is there were 2 credible bidders, OK? Indeed, Broughton said........I think I would have been happy with either bidder Seems a little remiss of him if finances were not in place for both bids. Add to that, the board was split on Lim and FSG on the vote, again, a little remiss unless both parties had presented a full financial account.

    I also find it rather amusing that you use Ayre as proof that only one credible bid existed, when Broughton insinuated that it was Ayre who actually brought Lim into the process, meaning Ayre clearly knew that more than one credible bid existed.
    I've been following the thread amused for a couple of days, now I'm a little confused though, how do your reconcile the bold part above, with the bold part below?

    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    I don't expect Henry to be any different to anyone else, I also don't expect him to be held up as a knight in shining armour, who rode to our rescue.

    Broughton said that there were other interested parties. Indeed Broughton did not want to sell to FSG, he said that the only good thing about them is that they exist, he suggested that going with FSG was scraping the bottom of the barrel, I suppose he hates them as well like!!
    One minute you're arguing that Broughton didn't want to sell to FSG, and the next you're quoting him saying he was happy with either bidder, which is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Papa View Post
    Where did you get that from?

    I'm pretty sure FSG's value of LFC was about half of what Forbes valued it at.

    And FSG have made it v clear they won't invest their own money - but will run the club to break even. Hence the loans. Again, I'm not saying that makes them terrible owners, but we shouldn't pretend that they didn't get an incredibly sweet deal on the club.
    Forbes value from Memory was 450m in 209/10 and FSG bought us for 300m BUT we had c.90m of 'other debts' which had to be cleared.

    FSG have invested there own money, they said the aim was to make us self sufficient, since aquasition FSG have pumped c.100m of their own money into the club. They done this by clearing our overdraft every year which we use to buy players with, creating more shares and buying them with the debt to them. Basically wiped out our debt (to them) they wiped 69m in one go http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/foo...l-fcs-10974360
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedResurgence View Post
    I've been following the thread amused for a couple of days, now I'm a little confused though, how do your reconcile the bold part above, with the bold part below?



    One minute you're arguing that Broughton didn't want to sell to FSG, and the next you're quoting him saying he was happy with either bidder, which is it?
    These are not my words mate, these are taken from a transcript of Broughtons words. Its not up to me to justify anything. The point I was making is that there was 2 credible bids on the table. If you want clarification on what Broughton said, I suggest you write to him and ask him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer-LFC View Post
    Maybe it was the right decision to sack Kenny. That's not the point though.

    It was the manner in which they handled his final days. Refusing to shake his hand after losing the FA Cup final, summoning him on a flight to Boston rather than getting off their own lazy candy arses and flying over themselves, sending him back to England without a job and then glorifying Rodgers as the second coming of Jesus in that sorry excuse of a documentary.

    As someone who respects the clubs traditions and legends, that will always rankle with me. Says a lot about them as people.

    And the fact that Rodgers demanding that he wouldn't work for a DoF made them change their plans just shows how small minded and stupid they are.
    Like others have said, we don't know everything; Kenny has never expressed any bitterness towards FSG and he has a role in the club.

    Also I'm guessing you and Reallash were calling for Rodgers to get sacked after we beat City 3-2 in 13/14?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmreSam View Post
    Like others have said, we don't know everything; Kenny has never expressed any bitterness towards FSG and he has a role in the club.

    Also I'm guessing you and Reallash were calling for Rodgers to get sacked after we beat City 3-2 in 13/14?
    I was actually calling for him not to be appointed at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer-LFC View Post
    Maybe it was the right decision to sack Kenny. That's not the point though.

    It was the manner in which they handled his final days. Refusing to shake his hand after losing the FA Cup final, summoning him on a flight to Boston rather than getting off their own lazy candy arses and flying over themselves, sending him back to England without a job and then glorifying Rodgers as the second coming of Jesus in that sorry excuse of a documentary.

    As someone who respects the clubs traditions and legends, that will always rankle with me. Says a lot about them as people.

    And the fact that Rodgers demanding that he wouldn't work for a DoF made them change their plans just shows how small minded and stupid they are.
    They refused to shake his hand?
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    I was actually calling for him not to be appointed at all.
    So you still wanted him sacked after we beat Man City 3-2? Don't avoid the question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmreSam View Post
    So you still wanted him sacked after we beat Man City 3-2? Don't avoid the question.
    Yes I did, I said so at every possible occasion, not a problem for me, he was a fraud.
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    No further questions your honour.
    Last edited by EmreSam; 18-7-17 at 16:29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurreyLiverpoolFan1983 View Post
    I think people forget FSG have no say in transfers in relation to who they actually sign - all they are concerned about is the cost of the transfer and the justification behind it

    previously we have had scenario's of a manager targeting players but not having the authority or pure single mindedness to go with his belief - ie. Rodgers with Van Dijk and Salah, both who probably should of already been at the club - why Rodgers didn't back up his own belief can be argued all day long and to be honest irrelevant now

    We have a manager who's singled minded in wanting Keita and Van Dijk and will not allow scouts or FSG officials to do what they did to Rodgers and make him go for other options

    FSG have made mistakes in the past purely based on who they employed and listened to and not trusting the manager they had in place, it seems that stance has now changed

    FSG have never not backed a manager with cash, just gone the wrong way about it at times

    let this summer play out and see where we are, if we manage to land Keita and Van Dijk as expected, we'll be very much stronger going in to the season than last season

    In terms of if FSG have been good owners or not, guess that cant be answered....until the day they leave

    If they stay 50 years and win loads of trophies, these 8 years so far will be looked back on as a period of stability and growth before the good times, then guess we call them good owners
    If they leave next year and have 1 carling cup to there name, can't really call it successful

    people will make mistakes along the way in all forms of life, no different as owners of a football club
    Good post
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    Yes I did, I said so at every possible occasion, not a problem for me, he was a fraud.
    Our manager had us top of the league on 80 points with 3 games to go, and you would've been happy to see him sacked. Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
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    Reallash, was this someone else then?

    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    It doesn't f***ing slip now

    Thought you said you called for Rodgers' head at every possible occasion, not reiterated Gerrard's words in the post match thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmreSam View Post
    Our manager had us top of the league on 80 points with 3 games to go, and you would've been happy to see him sacked. Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
    Nah, we had one of the worlds top goal scorers coming into his prime in that season, we also had a fit sturridge, we scored more than 100 goals and still couldn't get over the line - Why? We also conceded more than 50 goals in that season, very poor defence, nobody will ever win the league and concede that many goals. Even in the last 3 games, the conceding goals didnt stop did it? We conceded 6 goals in our last 3 games. Nothing is won with 3 games to go.

    Then we get the childish Gerrard slip cost us the title!!!!!! Yeah, one slip, lets just forget about the other 50+ slips during the season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    Nah, we had one of the worlds top goal scorers coming into his prime in that season, we also had a fit sturridge, we scored more than 100 goals and still couldn't get over the line - Why? We also conceded more than 50 goals in that season, very poor defence, nobody will ever win the league and concede that many goals. Even in the last 3 games, the conceding goals didnt stop did it? We conceded 6 goals in our last 3 games. Nothing is won with 3 games to go.

    Then we get the childish Gerrard slip cost us the title!!!!!! Yeah, one slip, lets just forget about the other 50+ slips during the season.
    Just a bit strange how you're saying this now but you weren't saying it after the City game in 2014.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmreSam View Post
    Reallash, was this someone else then?




    Thought you said you called for Rodgers' head at every possible occasion, not reiterated Gerrard's words in the post match thread.
    Of course I wanted LFC to win the league, why wouldn't I? I don't have to love the manager to want my club, a club that I supported long before he arrived and will support long after he has gone, to win the title.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    Of course I wanted LFC to win the league, why wouldn't I? I don't have to love the manager to want my club, a club that I supported long before he arrived and will support long after he has gone, to win the title.
    Ah right, so if Gerrard didn't slip and we won the league it would've had nothing to do with Rodgers. Although I'm curious, would you have been celebrating the title or posting #RodgersOut on Twitter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmreSam View Post
    Ah right, so if Gerrard didn't slip and we won the league it would've had nothing to do with Rodgers. Although I'm curious, would you have been celebrating the title or posting #RodgersOut on Twitter?
    Of course I would celebrate LFC winning the title, why wouldn't I? I would still want Rodgers as far away from LFC as he is right now. But lets be clear, as soon as Luis left and he was going anyway, it was over for Rodgers.

    The following season would have been exactly the same, the end result would have been exactly the same. Rodgers is a fraud, he can talk the talk no sweat, but it ends there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallash View Post
    Of course I would celebrate LFC winning the title, why wouldn't I? I would still want Rodgers as far away from LFC as he is right now. But lets be clear, as soon as Luis left and he was going anyway, it was over for Rodgers.

    The following season would have been exactly the same, the end result would have been exactly the same. Rodgers is a fraud, he can talk the talk no sweat, but it ends there.
    Not sure Rodgers is a fraud? Highly talented British manager would be fairer, he came within a whisker of winning the league, playing a 4-4-2 diamond, some of the football where we nearly won the league was devastating, in fact, some of the most entertaining football ive ever witnessed. Going out and pressing from the very first second, to the point where we where 2-0 up after 15 mins. Even rival fans where saying the football we played was the best to watch. All down to Suarez? Not so, even when he was out The win ratio Didnt differ so much. Sure Sturridge and Stirling where on fire that season, but every succesful coach has had good players, no?

    He was only young then, still is, and has just won the Scottish league undefeated for the first time in Celtics history (yea sure its a ***** league, but still) Who knows what he will go on to achieve? Time will tell, but to call him a fraud, is a little disrespectful, beyond the pale, premature and wide of the mark. Yea sure he talks too much, and is a little into himself, but so what.
    Last edited by VVD17; 18-7-17 at 17:18.
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