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Thread: Can and Coutinho

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    Perhaps our two most valuable CMs are agitating for moves. One has handed in a transfer request and the other is refusing to sign his contract with less than a year left on it. If that doesn't warrant a discussion then what does?
    And this is new news? This hasn't been done to death already?

    Coutinho is a South American, naturally attracted to one of the Spanish 2 - its the timing and antics that most have an issue with, not the fact he is leaving - as this happens with a lot of Spanish and South American players.
    Can? Well, that has just been poor contract management. I don't think there is anything endemic wrong with the club just because of the above two issues.

    Us not having 2nd and 3rd choices lined up for our purchases - now that is a real issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    And this is new news? This hasn't been done to death already?

    Coutinho is a South American, naturally attracted to one of the Spanish 2 - its the timing and antics that most have an issue with, not the fact he is leaving - as this happens with a lot of Spanish and South American players.
    Can? Well, that has just been poor contract management. I don't think there is anything endemic wrong with the club just because of the above two issues.

    Us not having 2nd and 3rd choices lined up for our purchases - now that is a real issue.
    Each to their own I guess. For me, losing one important player like this is expected... two is just poor.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    Each to their own I guess. For me, losing one important player like this is expected... two is just poor.
    The Can contract situation is poor, and was relatively in our control. Coutinho not so much - just got his head turned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    How has it come to this! Two of Rodger's best three midfield buys basically wanting out. Coutinho with his transfer request and Can refusing to sign a contract extension.

    In Lallana's absense through injury, if we lose both that leaves us with Captain Henderson, bog standard Milner and the invisible Dutchman Wijnaldum as our available senior midfielders. Seriously, will the pain ever stop!

    Thankfully, though perhaps a little too green and inexperienced, Grujic and Ajaria look pretty useful. Neither having Coady or Spearing limitations about them thankfully!

    But surely we need to be convincing Can and (if possible) Coutinho to stay?
    Klopp should build his "own" team.
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  5. #35  
    robbieflowerpot is offline Academy prospect
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    if Can isn't signing we really ought to get shot right now. We could replace him still this summer even if doing so for Coutinho isn't possible. Can is nowhere near as influential.
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbieflowerpot View Post
    if Can isn't signing we really ought to get shot right now. We could replace him still this summer even if doing so for Coutinho isn't possible. Can is nowhere near as influential.
    He has good potential - but is certainly being overhyped due to our lack of options, the Coutinho problem and his contract situation
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    He has good potential - but is certainly being overhyped due to our lack of options, the Coutinho problem and his contract situation
    Thing is, Can is by far our best CM... scary that!

    Henderson xxxxx himself every single game, Wijnaldum is poor both offensively and defensively, Milner tries so hard... but still sorta sucks. Neither of that rabble should be a 1st eleven player in a title chasing midfield.

    Not by any means saying that Can is world class, but he's the only one 'big' teams would look at when available.
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  8. #38  
    JurgenBelieveUs is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    I think when your best player wants to leave again then you need to analyse it.
    Mane's perfectly happy here
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    Don't worry mat , it is the World Cup in Russia preparation this seaso. The Brazilian national team coach should be given a piec of mind if he thinks he can decide the Brazilian national team players where they should play he will see where Coutihno will end up. He and Naymer are the ones who started calling for Coutihno to go to Barcelona that that is where he belong not Liverpool . Forgetting that they realized Coutihno's best while playing for Liverpool. He was at Inter Milan but never played. He is where he is today because of Liverpool who gave him that chance that today he is recognized as one of the best . If he refuses to perform , he will be warming up the bench and forget about playing for his country.
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    How has it come to this! Two of Rodger's best three midfield buys basically wanting out. Coutinho with his transfer request and Can refusing to sign a contract extension.

    In Lallana's absense through injury, if we lose both that leaves us with Captain Henderson, bog standard Milner and the invisible Dutchman Wijnaldum as our available senior midfielders. Seriously, will the pain ever stop!

    Thankfully, though perhaps a little too green and inexperienced, Grujic and Ajaria look pretty useful. Neither having Coady or Spearing limitations about them thankfully!

    But surely we need to be convincing Can and (if possible) Coutinho to stay?
    Have you seen how badly we have handled this window? And this is one of our better ones. So of course we are going to struggle to keep players with ambition. It will be Mane next who wants out.
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  11. #41  
    grevsmoker is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    Have you seen how badly we have handled this window? And this is one of our better ones. So of course we are going to struggle to keep players with ambition. It will be Mane next who wants out.
    How do you mean? You think this has been one of our better transfer windows?
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    I don't know what went wrong with our midfield . It is like they never went on pre-season. These are not the players I was watching during the pre-season. I was really proud that we are going to compete this season. The movement has changed drastically to no hope in the midfield. Our strikers are questionable too. Even in the pre-season non scored a goal. Will we see an improvement in Fermino in two games to come? I start doubting our strikers' potential to score goals. The Arsenal game will be the determining factor. If we don't see improvement then we must forget. I know this will come on the manager's head that he failed to bring in new players. I would say the blame is vivid, they wasted much time on Keita's bid without looking at other alternatives. You can't wait for one player. It is very bad that Salah's bid took almost a month and half. We needed a strong striker , Sturidge can't play two games. We should have gotten even a 15m form his selling and forget his talent to be honest. Unless Solanke really developed quickly to help Fermino. Wings are ok if they stay fit and improve more. Shame about Coutihno's problem. One can see how it affected the team . I think the news on Barcelona started after the team came back from Asia .
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  13. #43  
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    Liverpool management never learn on how to handle player contracts . It is annoying sometimes. Clubs who have ambitions do their transfer business quickly. The only transfers that went quickly and unnoticed were Firmino, Mane, Wijnaldum. Otherwise Liverpool s transfers are always never materialize , that is why we never sign 3 player in a season.
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    Liverpool never changed their contract system and structure. They are still living in the Diahnosour time. They must adopt to how football is vigorously changing. Look at what other teams are doing why they sign good players they want writhing a period of 3 weeks. When I see how many new good players Man.U, City Evertone, Stork, West Harm and Chelsea. To be honest, Evertone is the team to watch this season. They have a top four contesting squad this season.
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  15. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFC-Simon-95 View Post
    Do people see Can and Coutinho as a possible midfield 2?
    Absolutely. Against so many of these teams that st back so deep, we are wasting men on the pitch playing people like Henderson and Wijnaldum who contribute nothing to breaking teams down. I would absolutely play Can the deepest and allow Coutinho to dictate everything with Firmino playing an auxiliary #10 and s real,striker upfront.

    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    I don't trust Can's discipline in a 2. He loves his bombs forward too much, leaving the back 4 exposed. I actually don't like him as the #6 at all. Think he'd be better closer to an #8 position.
    Nonsense. This crap about Can's lack of discipline is just overblown rubbish. His best stretch of games season before last was in the 6.if you just left Can to play that position full time, he would excel at it and grow to be one of the best at it over time. He has everything in his locker to specialize in that role and discipline won't be a problem once he is just left to it. Jus because he has a knack for bomibing forward does not mean he can't be disciplined. He'd just have an understanding with fellow CM to cover those forward runs.

    Ideally, my had been a Can-Keita-Coutinho midfield that would have been as good as this league gets had we pulled it off.
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  16. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    Players want to leave clubs all of the time. Players left Real, Juve and Barca this summer. No need to overanalyse it

    We don't need multiple threads complaining about transfers out (and in) in my opinion.
    Plenty of our best players always left LFC as well really from Keegan on. Even Gerrard wanted out at one point. Every player in world football would want a shot at Barca probably. Analysis done.
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  17. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamaboy View Post
    Liverpool never changed their contract system and structure. They are still living in the Diahnosour time. They must adopt to how football is vigorously changing. Look at what other teams are doing why they sign good players they want writhing a period of 3 weeks. When I see how many new good players Man.U, City Evertone, Stork, West Harm and Chelsea. To be honest, Evertone is the team to watch this season. They have a top four contesting squad this season.
    I think Stork are really flying alright.
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  18. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snippes View Post
    Absolutely. Against so many of these teams that st back so deep, we are wasting men on the pitch playing people like Henderson and Wijnaldum who contribute nothing to breaking teams down. I would absolutely play Can the deepest and allow Coutinho to dictate everything with Firmino playing an auxiliary #10 and s real,striker upfront.



    Nonsense. This crap about Can's lack of discipline is just overblown rubbish. His best stretch of games season before last was in the 6.if you just left Can to play that position full time, he would excel at it and grow to be one of the best at it over time. He has everything in his locker to specialize in that role and discipline won't be a problem once he is just left to it. Jus because he has a knack for bomibing forward does not mean he can't be disciplined. He'd just have an understanding with fellow CM to cover those forward runs.

    Ideally, my had been a Can-Keita-Coutinho midfield that would have been as good as this league gets had we pulled it off.
    Can bombing forward, with about a 25% success rate and the rest of the time just blind alleys is nonsense? I suggest actually watching the games.

    But at least you do mention his lack of understanding with other CMs when this happens. You do know that problem is on him as well as them right? You proved my rather than your own point - lack of discipline and awareness to make those runs at the right time, which is suicide when you're the #6
    Last edited by L8LadinDubai; 21-8-17 at 03:30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    Can bombing forward, with about a 25% success rate and the rest of the time just blind alleys is nonsense? I suggest actually watching the games.

    But at least you do mention his lack of understanding with other CMs when this happens. You do know that problem is on him as well as them right? You proved my rather than your own point - lack of discipline and awareness to make those runs at the right time, which is suicide when you're the #6
    It's all well and good banging on about how rubbish you think the lad is, but he's the best that we currently have.

    No one here is daft enough to suggest that Henderson (regardless of captaincy), Milner (regardless of effort) or Wijnaldum (regardless of... regardless of... regardless) are better CMs.

    On the open market there's a reason why Can would attract far more interest than the rest of our CMs. Who'd be interested in Hendo or Milner? Who's even seen Wijnaldum? No point talking about our inexperienced players Grujic and Ajaria.
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  20. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    It's all well and good banging on about how rubbish you think the lad is, but he's the best that we currently have.

    No one here is daft enough to suggest that Henderson (regardless of captaincy), Milner (regardless of effort) or Wijnaldum (regardless of... regardless of... regardless) are better CMs.

    On the open market there's a reason why Can would attract far more interest than the rest of our CMs. Who'd be interested in Hendo or Milner? Who's even seen Wijnaldum? No point talking about our inexperienced players Grujic and Ajaria.
    I don't think he's rubbish - where have I said that?

    For me, he needs to work on his discipline and game intelligence as I have alluded to, to be the right person for the number 6. But his dynamism, presence and power work in other areas of the pitch.

    In terms of his value, his age, potential and contract situation places him above Henderson and Milner, not his current capability. I don't think he is the best we have for the #6 role. I think Henderson, when fit is better. But neither of them are 100% right for it in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    I don't think he's rubbish - where have I said that?

    For me, he needs to work on his discipline and game intelligence as I have alluded to, to be the right person for the number 6. But his dynamism, presence and power work in other areas of the pitch.

    In terms of his value, his age, potential and contract situation places him above Henderson and Milner, not his current capability. I don't think he is the best we have for the #6 role. I think Henderson, when fit is better. But neither of them are 100% right for it in my opinion.
    Unfortunately I really don't rate Henderson at all. Far too many deficiencies to his game. In the #6 role he expects the CBs to distribute the ball forwards and just points and yells. He offers no protection to the backline., is flustered when under any sort of pressure and resorts to blind passes rather than creating space for himself. Poor player.

    The measure is, I can imagine Emre in Benitez's LFC midfield. I can't imagine Henderson anywhere near it at any point in his development to date.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    Unfortunately I really don't rate Henderson at all. Far too many deficiencies to his game. In the #6 role he expects the CBs to distribute the ball forwards and just points and yells. He offers no protection to the backline., is flustered when under any sort of pressure and resorts to blind passes rather than creating space for himself. Poor player.

    The measure is, I can imagine Emre in Benitez's LFC midfield. I can't imagine Henderson anywhere near it at any point in his development to date.
    Which of Stevie, Xabi or Masch would he replace?
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    We really MUST stick to our guns with Coutinho, regardless of whatever price Barcelona offer. I say this not only because he is a key player, but we really have to send out the message that Liverpool are not a selling club.

    I am pretty sure that if we cave in we will be facing the same scenario next season with Mane, and the season after with another player. We have to send out the message to other clubs and to our own players that we only sell who we want and when we want. Otherwise we are stacking up problems for the future.

    Can? I'm not bothered. No one's come calling because he's nothing special. Very replaceable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    Which of Stevie, Xabi or Masch would he replace?
    He could develop into a player who could give Mascherano a run imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    Which of Stevie, Xabi or Masch would he replace?
    Sissoko
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    He could develop into a player who could give Mascherano a run imo.
    Develop into in the future - maybe. Right now - no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    He could develop into a player who could give Mascherano a run imo.
    Not seeing that mate completely different players.. emre's game is closer to Gerrard's, without Gerrard's passing and shooting range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8LadinDubai View Post
    Develop into in the future - maybe. Right now - no.
    Yeah obviously but the tools are there for him to become a top midfielder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert-Hall View Post
    We really MUST stick to our guns with Coutinho, regardless of whatever price Barcelona offer. I say this not only because he is a key player, but we really have to send out the message that Liverpool are not a selling club.

    I am pretty sure that if we cave in we will be facing the same scenario next season with Mane, and the season after with another player. We have to send out the message to other clubs and to our own players that we only sell who we want and when we want. Otherwise we are stacking up problems for the future.

    Can? I'm not bothered. No one's come calling because he's nothing special. Very replaceable.
    I would like to amend my thoughts on the above. Having just seen the second leg against Hoffenheim I have to say I was VERY,VERY impressed with Can. He was up there with Mane and Firmino, totally dominating the match. In fact for me he was arguably MOM. I have never been so impressed with his performance as I was tonight, definitely his best game in a Liverpool shirt. We really need to keep him.
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  30. #60  
    JurgenBelieveUs is online now Academy prospect
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    Some new quotes from Phil:

    "I do not know how the future is going to be," said the forward, who signed a five-year deal at the start of 2017.

    "What will happen in January, we will know it in January. I do not know if there will be an offer."

    "Last summer there was a job offer in the same way that happens with any employee and I was interested in it. Since I stayed I have played with will and desire.

    "Of course a lot happened in the summer but my will is always to play and do the best wherever I am - that has not changed.

    "I am here (at Liverpool), we have a lot of games and I try to do my best to help. I always do my best when I have the opportunity to play, respecting the jersey and the supporters."
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