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Thread: Jurgen Klopp - Episode III

  1. #451  
    +Shriekback+ is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Our defenders were great at the clubs we brought them from

    Some of our crap defenders have gone on to be great elsewhere

    The problem is what we are asking of them - it destroys them
    I understand what you mean, we are purchasing inferior defenders and asking them to perform at the highest level.

    Lovren a mid-table centre back who was rubbish at Lyon, he isn't a champions league performer, I am starting to believe that he isn't even a centre back, Matip is average, Klavan came from a mid-table German side.

    We are going to achieve zip with a defense like this. The harsh reality and truth.
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  2. #452  
    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    The difference with this season and the rodgers final season is that we look like we can almost click.

    In Rogers final year, it looked pretty grim. and I'm a rodgers fan. I think he will have a very good career and is doing wonders at Celtic.
    It's clear we have this way of playing that does not seem far off from working. The vision is there, the squad is pretty good, plenty of promise.
    Klopp still needs to buy a new keeper or try one of ward of Karius long term. He still needs another CB and we have keita coming in for the middle.
    So there is progress but at the moment seems we have taken a step back but the ingredients are there for the step forward.
    For those writing off the season at this stage need to book an appointment with their GP.
    wow this is the first time i've ever agreed with anything you've said on these boards
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    We don't really know what happened behind the scenes during the transfer window but I refuse to believe that a manager of the calibre of Klopp would have been pleased to go into the new season with Klavan, Matip and Lovren as the only senior options at CB. We should have had Van Dijk but some tool behind the scenes made sure that that deal died. I doubt that Klopp wasn't looking at other CB options, it would really be unbelievable if that were to be the case.

    Just like last season, Klopp is overachieving with the players that he has. He is the only world class thing about this club at the moment. He can set up his team with the players he has but he can't score the sitters that we've been missing for them. It's easy to point the finger at him for the summer dealings but the reality is that we don't really know how things work behind the scenes and had the club been competent enough to bring in his targets, our squad would be looking a hell of a lot better right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shriekback View Post
    I understand what you mean, we are purchasing inferior defenders and asking them to perform at the highest level.

    Lovren a mid-table centre back who was rubbish at Lyon, he isn't a champions league performer, I am starting to believe that he isn't even a centre back, Matip is average, Klavan came from a mid-table German side.

    We are going to achieve zip with a defense like this. The harsh reality and truth.
    Not only that

    we are asking them to zonal mark - thats great in the 1st phase, but then they are confused if the ball is not cleared straight away
    we are asking them to push on - play like midfielders....... its alien to some of them

    better homework on recruiting is needed - as you say Lovren was crap at Lyon, great at Southampton
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    wow this is the first time i've ever agreed with anything you've said on these boards
    What's the mood like amongst the traveling Kop, Ray? Any grumbling or loss of belief?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantstandya View Post
    Just like Rodgers he has backed Mignolet, Lovren, Henderson etc. He has wasted resources on average players that we didn't need. Refused to get rid of players clearly not good enough to be here, and has a ridiculous level of loyalty in certain players that do nothing but prove him wrong. Tactically he is struggling and he is getting that same bewildered look on his face that Rodgers had before he was sacked. He's had four transfer windows and two years to improve us and yet for the most part we are no better a side than the one he took over.

    Its time he revisits the things that made him so successful at Dortmund in the earlier years because at the moment he looks like the guy the board couldn't wait to move on because results were so poor and he had wasted so much money.

    No proper DM, but sold Lucas...
    Two poor keepers, one of which he bought and he can't decide which terrible keeper he wants to go with
    Best player wants to leave
    Sturridge still here
    Henderson still captain and a starter
    Bought a 3rd choice left back rather than one to replace Moreno
    Lovren still here and bought an even worse version in Klavan
    35m for Chamberlain who has no position and can't pass
    Told us there were no quality CB's in the world to be had with the 50-60m he had for VVD
    Sold anyone with even an ounce of personality/grit

    It goes on and on. He looks like he's aged 15 years already. It also looks like he's locked into that death spiral that soon to be unemployed managers go through.

    He is proof that quality managers can be a bad fit at the wrong club and are not impervious to the terrible decision making that contributes to it.
    This.

    I don't know if it is because Klopp and his team of assistants are too stubborn to change or they simply do not know how to rectify the obvious problems that the team has, but it is obvious to everyone else.

    GK: We need a dominant keeper, shot stop and in the area. Mings ticks the first requirement but not the second, but Karius so far neither. I'm not sure about ward.
    CB: This is the obvious one, We sold Lucas (not a CB though often used as a stop gap with mixed results) and Sakho, who had not played because of Klopp's stubborness. Sakho is miles better than what we have. Ok, they were sold, so the least you can expect is that they are replaced with something better. Nothing. Don't tell me that the only CB around that can improve our team is VVD. And what about starting to consider playing 3 CBs. It seems the obvious solution.
    RB: Playing Gomes on RB just makes no sense. Use him as CB if you want to use him. TAA is better (although showing immaturity in defense), Flanno is better.
    LB: Last season Moreno can not get a game, for good reasons and we play Milner all season. Everyone is crying out for a LB and we buy Robertson, a good solid LB although no spectacular. What happens. Milner does not get a game on LB, Robertson for most matches is not even in the squad and suddenly Moreno plays all games. Granted, I think he has improved somewhat on his defensive positioning, but I simply do not understand the logic.
    DM: We are crying out for a real DM, not Jordan "Sideways" Henderson or Gini Wijnaldum. Emre Can neither for that matter. Krychowiak was there for the taking. "Klopp does not play with DMs" some say, hell even I have argued this in the past. Well actually he does, because he played Lucas plenty last season. Unfortunately, Lucas, however much I liked him, had the unfortunate habit of giving away freekicks just outside the box that translated into goals. Maybe Klopp does not play traditional DMs, but again we are crying out for a player that can intervene in midfield when the opponent counter attacks after all our attackers and midfielders have stormed forward during one of our famed attacking displays. Granted, we bought Keita, but he is not bought as a DM either.
    Ox: What the hell were we thinking paying 35 million for a player that can not get into the team holding down a regular position, because no one knows, including himself, what his position is.
    CF: WE DO NOT HAVE A CENTER FORWARD. Is that clear enough. Firmino has nver been a forward. Sturridge once was a good forward, but no longer. Ings is not playing and I don't know if he ever will step up. Probably not. Solanke seems to have great potential, but that is not good enough right now.

    I mean, all of the above seems common wisdom to most people that watch LIF. Why not to our manager and coaches. Are they too stubborn or simply not astute enough. I have no clue but watching LFC right now is heartbreaking and something must give very soon. For God's sake, we have so many goals against that only Palace and WHU are worse thatn us.

    What could have been (notice, its our spine that is broken). Many will disagree and all team selections are up for discussion, but it is indisputable that our spine is too weak, our goalie and CBs are not good enough in the present set-up, that our midfield is not resilient enough and does rather play sideways than forward, that we do not have a goal scoring forward and..... that Coutino us better coming for the left than being center midfield.

    ---------Handanovic----------
    ---Matip---VVD---Sakho--
    TTA----------------------Robertson
    --------Krychowiak-------
    ------------Keita-------------
    -Salah/Mane--Coutino/Mane
    ---------Aubameyang-----

    Reserves: Ward, Clyne, Gomes, Lovren, Milner, hendo, Can, Lallana, Firmino, Solanke, one of Salah/Mane/Coutino

    Rid: Karius, Klavan, Moreno, Ox, Ings, Sturridge + all the other that fail to compete for a place
    Last edited by pouldh; 2-10-17 at 14:07.
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    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Topper- View Post
    What's the mood like amongst the traveling Kop, Ray? Any grumbling or loss of belief?
    I was not at Newcastle or Moscow but my Bro was at both he says fans are really begining to get frustrated but on the whole they are fully behind Mr Klopp and think we are just getting a run of bad luck and chances as a rule we'd score we are missing .
    Just hope we get a lucky break maybe the Mancs could get the backlash
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    I was not at Newcastle or Moscow but my Bro was at both he says fans are really begining to get frustrated but on the whole they are fully behind Mr Klopp and think we are just getting a run of bad luck and chances as a rule we'd score we are missing .
    Just hope we get a lucky break maybe the Mancs could get the backlash
    That's my feeling as well. Every match I've seen since the City match (missed the cup game but that was a makeshift side so not sure it would really say much anyway) we've been "this close" to putting up a fistful of goals and battering teams. The draw yesterday was as much down to an unlucky carom as anything else, 99% of the time that challenge from Matip sends the ball spinning towards the sideline and it's a wonderful recovery. While Pawson & co were pretty good yesterday, saying we've suffered from somewhat questionable officiating isn't a stretch either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    wow this is the first time i've ever agreed with anything you've said on these boards
    First time for everything I guess!

    Although a week ago you did do a clever one by telling porkies about me where my response to you got me banned!
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  10. #460  
    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    That's my feeling as well. Every match I've seen since the City match (missed the cup game but that was a makeshift side so not sure it would really say much anyway) we've been "this close" to putting up a fistful of goals and battering teams. The draw yesterday was as much down to an unlucky carom as anything else, 99% of the time that challenge from Matip sends the ball spinning towards the sideline and it's a wonderful recovery. While Pawson & co were pretty good yesterday, saying we've suffered from somewhat questionable officiating isn't a stretch either.
    Our luck will change
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  11. #461  
    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    First time for everything I guess!

    Although a week ago you did do a clever one by telling porkies about me where my response to you got me banned!
    Didn't know or see that as much as i don't like you i don't want you or anyone banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    Didn't know or see that as much as i don't like you i don't want you or anyone banned
    Your bound to not like me as I am happy with fsg. You initially were well happy with fsg and even made a thread about it and defending the transfers and rodgers too. Your support for fsg has gone, I maintain my support for them.

    BTW, just so you know, the Annie road application does not expire until 2019 so don't expect a statement any time soon.

    Back to klopp, I expect fsg won't even entertain the thought of changing him and rightly so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    I was not at Newcastle or Moscow but my Bro was at both he says fans are really begining to get frustrated but on the whole they are fully behind Mr Klopp and think we are just getting a run of bad luck and chances as a rule we'd score we are missing .
    Just hope we get a lucky break maybe the Mancs could get the backlash
    Good to know.

    Talk of firing Klopp is tosh. We are developing and building the club, knee-jerk changes isn't what we need right now. What we need is to win matches and it will happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    I am only uneducated coz I ain't in your cliche - no yes sir - I know who is wrong and it ain't me... like I said before about your cliche, they love picking on the messenger not the message
    clique*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balon D'telli View Post
    clique*
    sorry - correct

    Amended
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  16. #466  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    First time for everything I guess!

    Although a week ago you did do a clever one by telling porkies about me where my response to you got me banned!
    You only have yourself to blame for getting banned...just like everyone else.

    You are the one pressing the "post" button on your musings.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    You only have yourself to blame for getting banned...just like everyone else.

    You are the one pressing the "post" button on your musings.
    Can't believe I was banned for replying to a post against me. People say all sorts on here and get away with it.
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    Wether people on here like it or not but there's only a few nails left in Klopps coffin.its a result game at the end of the day and he hasn't addressed the obvious problems in the team and if that shower up the road give us a thumping in 2 weeks i for one wouldn't like to be in Klopps shoes..(the ox transfer was a stinker and holds no ground whatsoever and will haunt Klopp for years to come)
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    I was not at Newcastle or Moscow but my Bro was at both he says fans are really begining to get frustrated but on the whole they are fully behind Mr Klopp and think we are just getting a run of bad luck and chances as a rule we'd score we are missing .
    Just hope we get a lucky break maybe the Mancs could get the backlash
    Most are still behind klopp but it's more in hope than expectation. There are no audible shouts of discontent yet but the mutterings are there at half time and in the pubs after. I don't think anyone thinks we are being unlucky......we are being sloppy and only have ourselves to blame
    Last edited by seasonedtraveller; 2-10-17 at 16:18.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantstandya View Post
    Just like Rodgers he has backed Mignolet, Lovren, Henderson etc. He has wasted resources on average players that we didn't need. Refused to get rid of players clearly not good enough to be here, and has a ridiculous level of loyalty in certain players that do nothing but prove him wrong. Tactically he is struggling and he is getting that same bewildered look on his face that Rodgers had before he was sacked. He's had four transfer windows and two years to improve us and yet for the most part we are no better a side than the one he took over.

    Its time he revisits the things that made him so successful at Dortmund in the earlier years because at the moment he looks like the guy the board couldn't wait to move on because results were so poor and he had wasted so much money.

    No proper DM, but sold Lucas...
    Two poor keepers, one of which he bought and he can't decide which terrible keeper he wants to go with
    Best player wants to leave
    Sturridge still here
    Henderson still captain and a starter
    Bought a 3rd choice left back rather than one to replace Moreno
    Lovren still here and bought an even worse version in Klavan
    35m for Chamberlain who has no position and can't pass
    Told us there were no quality CB's in the world to be had with the 50-60m he had for VVD
    Sold anyone with even an ounce of personality/grit


    It goes on and on. He looks like he's aged 15 years already. It also looks like he's locked into that death spiral that soon to be unemployed managers go through.

    He is proof that quality managers can be a bad fit at the wrong club and are not impervious to the terrible decision making that contributes to it.
    I dont know how anyone could argue with this to be honest.

    Our defending is an absolute joke, chance after chance goes begging at the other end aswell. We've got arguably the easiest Champions league group and we're making a complete hash out of that.

    You have to laugh at the "few signings away from being great" brigade ... we're nowhere near in terms of quality, or depth ... or actually capable of the fundementals .... controlling a game, defending set pieces.

    People on here love to slate Mourinho, as a manager he knows what hes doing. United are short in defence, he buys defenders ... he's short in midfield he buys Pogba and Matic .... he's short up front he snaps up Ibra on a free and buys Lukaku ... it isnt exactly hard to figure out why theyve started so well.

    Whilst we buy players who dont seem to be any better than the dross in the starting 11 every week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Can't believe I was banned for replying to a post against me. People say all sorts on here and get away with it.
    Grass....
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  22. #472  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Most are still behind klopp but it's more in hope than expectation. There are no audible shouts of discontent yet but the mutterings are there at half time and in the pubs after. I don't think anyone thinks we are being unlucky......we are being sloppy and only have ourselves to blame
    There have been mutterings in the pub and at half time since Anfield opened it's doors.

    I can remember the grumbling when we were mid table at Xmas under Bob one year...it's just what fans do...part of being a fan...the ups and downs.

    We still won the league that year btw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SliceOfLife View Post
    We don't really know what happened behind the scenes during the transfer window but I refuse to believe that a manager of the calibre of Klopp would have been pleased to go into the new season with Klavan, Matip and Lovren as the only senior options at CB. We should have had Van Dijk but some tool behind the scenes made sure that that deal died. I doubt that Klopp wasn't looking at other CB options, it would really be unbelievable if that were to be the case.

    Just like last season, Klopp is overachieving with the players that he has. He is the only world class thing about this club at the moment. He can set up his team with the players he has but he can't score the sitters that we've been missing for them. It's easy to point the finger at him for the summer dealings but the reality is that we don't really know how things work behind the scenes and had the club been competent enough to bring in his targets, our squad would be looking a hell of a lot better right now.
    Refreshing to hear from someone who can see beyond the clouds of doubt. It will come good soon, we just need to stick it out and get behind the team, we all know our strengths and limitations infact the whole world does lol. The most important thing we as fans have to do is to get behind the team as much as possible and to get behind Klopp too, regardless of some of the mistakes he might have made, because at the end of the day he is still a great manager and the least we as fans can do is to keep supporting the lads, thats what makes Liverpool fans the best in the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Most are still behind klopp but it's more in hope than expectation. There are no audible shouts of discontent yet but the mutterings are there at half time and in the pubs after. I don't think anyone thinks we are being unlucky......we are being sloppy and only have ourselves to blame
    Fantastic. A whole bunch of intellects there, eh? Honestly, at any little slight decrease in our form, all the knuckleheads come out and think there is some magic person who can make things better. One thing I hope is that FSG don't ever get persuaded by the "mutterings" that go on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    There have been mutterings in the pub and at half time since Anfield opened it's doors.

    I can remember the grumbling when we were mid table at Xmas under Bob one year...it's just what fans do...part of being a fan...the ups and downs.

    We still won the league that year btw.
    To be fair and put into context. Klopp is not Bob, and Klopp doesn't have the players that Bob had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    I am only uneducated coz I ain't in your clique - no yes sir - I know who is wrong and it ain't me... like I said before about your clique, they love picking on the messenger not the message
    I'm a Liverpool fan/supporter you are not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Not only that

    we are asking them to zonal mark - thats great in the 1st phase, but then they are confused if the ball is not cleared straight away
    we are asking them to push on - play like midfielders....... its alien to some of them

    better homework on recruiting is needed - as you say Lovren was crap at Lyon, great at Southampton
    Agree on everything you wrote.
    we play defenders used to play deeper with lots of protection to high up field with no protection. And we are not good at finding players that fit our style of play. And stubbornness dont allow us to change the way we play to suit our players and protect their weaknesses
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    Its bad that I would trust 99% of people on here to identify our problems and sign the players we need, more than I do our multi millionaire manager.

    If klopp couldnt think of a centre back to improve us, maybe he should come on here and find out the hundreds of players we all suggested, that would of indefinetly improved us.

    Its madness that our fans make more sense than our own manager.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan92 View Post
    Its bad that I would trust 99% of people on here to identify our problems and sign the players we need, more than I do our multi millionaire manager.

    If klopp couldnt think of a centre back to improve us, maybe he should come on here and find out the hundreds of players we all suggested, that would of indefinetly improved us.

    Its madness that our fans make more sense than our own manager.
    Are you saying the club should hire us as scouts?
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    i just klopp finally "see" what we need before stewie wonder does

    i feel like all the world knows by now what this team is missing except the coach
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