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Thread: Jurgen Klopp - Episode III

  1. #661  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    Here's two more... Mingolet and Lovren. Both got improved contracts under Klopp.
    Tis a puzzlement.
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  2. #662  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    Forgot my wallet
    Typical.
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  3. #663  
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Hm I see we agree on another issue SG. SG is the future of the club, and he will need a different kind of ownership with a different vision. I hope it won't be too long a wait.
    So you want klopp sacked?

    Also SG has been hired by fsg as a coach as they have the vision of him being at the club long term. That's the vision SG would hope for.

    Another owner coming in may well want a completely different approach.
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  4. #664  
    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Hm I see we agree on another issue SG. SG is the future of the club, and he will need a different kind of ownership with a different vision. I hope it won't be too long a wait.
    Are you suggesting we sack Mr Klopp?
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  5. #665  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    So you want klopp sacked?

    Also SG has been hired by fsg as a coach as they have the vision of him being at the club long term. That's the vision SG would hope for.

    Another owner coming in may well want a completely different approach.
    Ok to address the Klopp issue. Ray are you reading.

    Whether or not he is sacked is not the issue, as the club is a holistic entity and all components are linked together. If Klopp is fired and nothing is changed we will get the same result regardless who is the manager, so that isn't a solution.

    If we look at the issues on the pitch which includes the transfer business etc, we need to ask how much time does a so called world class manager need to create a winning team.
    This answer varies enormously according to the person and player situation. Personally I believe 2-3 years because one can actually see how it unfolds over this period. However we have all the variables coming into play like transfer budgets, player availability etc etc.

    So as has been said before we need all the inharmonious issues to be resolved. So if we take an F1 racing team for example that's the kind of synergy we need. This is what the top clubs are trying to achieve to keep them at the top. Whatever it takes or whatever is needed to solve these issues needs to be addressed. we have proved that sacking managers doesn't work, nor does does having the wrong manager, nor the wrong ownership, nor the wrong players. In fact we have shown in the past 26 odd years how not to do it, and the resultant fall from grace we have had. Nobody knows this better than Kenny Dalglish, and Steven Gerrard. We as supporters know as well, but we don't have the opportunity to have an input. So yes Pegi your point on getting knew ownership could inpact on Steven unless there are outside influences before such an ownership change took place.

    Klopp is a like someone who wants to build a car to take on Merc and Ferrari. Got a fast engine that performs on some tracks, but the chassis and the tryes don't match. So the car doesn't perform to its optimum 100% of the time. So until the issues that stand in the way are solved we are going to move forward.

    Regarding Steven Gerrard. He is the most natural person to lead Liverpool, just as Kenny was in his time. But for Steven to succeed he needs to have an ownership that clearly supports the vision of a real and resurgent Liverpool and who have a shared vision with him on how to achieve this. Also we as supporters need to have some form of input into the process. There is also absolutely no doubt in my mind that given the right ownership etc, Stevie will be extremely successful. He is in the mould of our previous 4 successful managers, and as Kenny had Bob as a mentor, so Stevie has Kenny.
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  6. #666  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    So you want klopp sacked?

    Also SG has been hired by fsg as a coach as they have the vision of him being at the club long term. That's the vision SG would hope for.

    Another owner coming in may well want a completely different approach.
    He has been hired by Liverpool Football Club. FSG, an American investment firm, have no need for the hiring of football coaches.
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  7. #667  
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Ok to address the Klopp issue. Ray are you reading.

    Whether or not he is sacked is not the issue, as the club is a holistic entity and all components are linked together. If Klopp is fired and nothing is changed we will get the same result regardless who is the manager, so that isn't a solution.

    If we look at the issues on the pitch which includes the transfer business etc, we need to ask how much time does a so called world class manager need to create a winning team.
    This answer varies enormously according to the person and player situation. Personally I believe 2-3 years because one can actually see how it unfolds over this period. However we have all the variables coming into play like transfer budgets, player availability etc etc.

    So as has been said before we need all the inharmonious issues to be resolved. So if we take an F1 racing team for example that's the kind of synergy we need. This is what the top clubs are trying to achieve to keep them at the top. Whatever it takes or whatever is needed to solve these issues needs to be addressed. we have proved that sacking managers doesn't work, nor does does having the wrong manager, nor the wrong ownership, nor the wrong players. In fact we have shown in the past 26 odd years how not to do it, and the resultant fall from grace we have had. Nobody knows this better than Kenny Dalglish, and Steven Gerrard. We as supporters know as well, but we don't have the opportunity to have an input. So yes Pegi your point on getting knew ownership could inpact on Steven unless there are outside influences before such an ownership change took place.

    Klopp is a like someone who wants to build a car to take on Merc and Ferrari. Got a fast engine that performs on some tracks, but the chassis and the tryes don't match. So the car doesn't perform to its optimum 100% of the time. So until the issues that stand in the way are solved we are going to move forward.

    Regarding Steven Gerrard. He is the most natural person to lead Liverpool, just as Kenny was in his time. But for Steven to succeed he needs to have an ownership that clearly supports the vision of a real and resurgent Liverpool and who have a shared vision with him on how to achieve this. Also we as supporters need to have some form of input into the process. There is also absolutely no doubt in my mind that given the right ownership etc, Stevie will be extremely successful. He is in the mould of our previous 4 successful managers, and as Kenny had Bob as a mentor, so Stevie has Kenny.
    So we just need better 'holistic synergy'? Who knew it was so simple. Someone get on the phone to John Henry.
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  8. #668  
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    So we just need better 'holistic synergy'? Who knew it was so simple. Someone get on the phone to John Henry.
    *merges fingers together and bites lip*
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    So we just need better 'holistic synergy'? Who knew it was so simple. Someone get on the phone to John Henry.
    I actually agree with him but the 'hole' isn't in the ownership but in the recruitment department. Get that bit in line with the rest of the Club and we'd be sorted, simples!
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  10. #670  
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Ok to address the Klopp issue. Ray are you reading.

    Whether or not he is sacked is not the issue, as the club is a holistic entity and all components are linked together. If Klopp is fired and nothing is changed we will get the same result regardless who is the manager, so that isn't a solution.

    If we look at the issues on the pitch which includes the transfer business etc, we need to ask how much time does a so called world class manager need to create a winning team.
    This answer varies enormously according to the person and player situation. Personally I believe 2-3 years because one can actually see how it unfolds over this period. However we have all the variables coming into play like transfer budgets, player availability etc etc.

    So as has been said before we need all the inharmonious issues to be resolved. So if we take an F1 racing team for example that's the kind of synergy we need. This is what the top clubs are trying to achieve to keep them at the top. Whatever it takes or whatever is needed to solve these issues needs to be addressed. we have proved that sacking managers doesn't work, nor does does having the wrong manager, nor the wrong ownership, nor the wrong players. In fact we have shown in the past 26 odd years how not to do it, and the resultant fall from grace we have had. Nobody knows this better than Kenny Dalglish, and Steven Gerrard. We as supporters know as well, but we don't have the opportunity to have an input. So yes Pegi your point on getting knew ownership could inpact on Steven unless there are outside influences before such an ownership change took place.

    Klopp is a like someone who wants to build a car to take on Merc and Ferrari. Got a fast engine that performs on some tracks, but the chassis and the tryes don't match. So the car doesn't perform to its optimum 100% of the time. So until the issues that stand in the way are solved we are going to move forward.

    Regarding Steven Gerrard. He is the most natural person to lead Liverpool, just as Kenny was in his time. But for Steven to succeed he needs to have an ownership that clearly supports the vision of a real and resurgent Liverpool and who have a shared vision with him on how to achieve this. Also we as supporters need to have some form of input into the process. There is also absolutely no doubt in my mind that given the right ownership etc, Stevie will be extremely successful. He is in the mould of our previous 4 successful managers, and as Kenny had Bob as a mentor, so Stevie has Kenny.


    this makes zero sense.

    are you saying the harmony is not there with the owners and klopp?

    the only harmony you read in to is that fsg do not have the finances that Chelsea, city and united have.

    you keep mentioning synergy, energy, harmony, wholeheartedly etc. means very little as firstly its not tangible and secondly the evidence is not there that there are major dysfunctions between the owners and klopp. if anything, it seems like a great relationship. the only thing lacking is the funds that the top clubs have that we do not have.
    Last edited by FSG-VanBasten; 9-10-17 at 15:22.
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  11. #671  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    this makes zero sense.

    are you saying the harmony is not there with the owners and klopp?

    the only harmony you read in to is that fsg do not have the finances that Chelsea, city and united have.

    you keep mentioning synergy, energy, harmony, wholeheartedly etc. means very little as firstly its not tangible and secondly the evidence is not there that there are major dysfunctions between the owners and klopp. if anything, it seems like a great relationship. the only thing lacking is the funds that the top clubs have that we do not have.
    I disagree, it’s how we spend the funds we do have that needs to improve (*********** with our synergy at the moment).
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterPoolStark View Post
    I disagree, it’s how we spend the funds we do have that needs to improve (*********** with our synergy at the moment).
    the signings are down to klopp. hes been given the funds.
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    Anyone pinning their hopes on Gerrard being the solution, or even part of the solution, will likely be disappointed. How many club legends go on to be lengendary managers - very few.

    Look at how many fantastic players liverpool and Utd have produced between them. You could count the number who have went on to become top quality managers on one hand (I can only think of Dalglish and Busby).

    Some of our current issues are self inflicted - or at least could have been mitigated by a better recruitment policy. But if people expect firing Klopp will bring about a huge difference then I think they're ignoring much more fundamental issues like under investment, scouting etc.

    Since abramovich came into football and Chelsea won their first title the Leicester miracle is the only time the title has gone outside the clubs who have spent most money in that period. Without proper investment in the team we will be relying on another year like 2016 when all the big teams underperformed as our only real hope. All the while we're in a constant rinse and repeat cycle of changing managers and losing our best players to Spain. For Coutinho in '17/18 read Mane in '18/19.
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  14. #674  
    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    the signings are down to klopp. hes been given the funds.
    But who scuppered the VVD transfer thats what we want to know
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevo0573 View Post
    He has been hired by Liverpool Football Club. FSG, an American investment firm, have no need for the hiring of football coaches.
    You're incredibly na´ve if you think a new owner won't toss at least some of the big wheels at the club who, in turn, will toss those lower in the chain to install their people all the way down to the tea lady and toilet cleaners...
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    steviewonder87 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    But who scuppered the VVD transfer thats what we want to know
    Saints, obviously.
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    raybarnes is online now Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Saints, obviously.

    Who let them know about the dodgy approach
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post

    Who let them know about the dodgy approach
    The papers / media? I mean it's not like it was plastered everywhere that we were talking to him...
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post

    Who let them know about the dodgy approach
    Why do you think no one else bid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    But who scuppered the VVD transfer thats what we want to know
    What we did is no different to what every club does.

    Saints were categorically not going to sell as they have new owners who purchased a stake and were not going to sell him regardless.

    Why do you think no other club bought him either? They threatened us so we back off and we did. But even if we pressed, the answer would have been no. Simple as. Unless maybe we offered 80-90m maybe which would have been insane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Why do you think no one else bid?
    What does it matter if other clubs bid someone at our end alerted Southampton to our dodgy approach or are you saying its ust a scouse conspiracy
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  22. #682  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    What we did is no different to what every club does.

    Saints were categorically not going to sell as they have new owners who purchased a stake and were not going to sell him regardless.

    Why do you think no other club bought him either? They threatened us so we back off and we did. But even if we pressed, the answer would have been no. Simple as. Unless maybe we offered 80-90m maybe which would have been insane.
    Insane or a quality defender signed for 20 million more than we allegedly were going to pay
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  23. #683  
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    What does it matter if other clubs bid someone at our end alerted Southampton to our dodgy approach or are you saying its just a scouse conspiracy
    Sounds like that's what you're insinuating.

    I bet Saints would have threatened the same with any other club if they had come in with a serious offer is my point, I'm sure they all 'tapped him up' the same as we did, difference being we did a better job of it and convinced him we were the only club for him and unsettled him. This was then spread all over the media and royally ********** them off. They didn't want to sell, just like us and Coutinho, and that was the end of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Sounds like that's what you're insinuating.

    I bet Saints would have threatened the same with any other club if they had come in with a serious offer is my point, I'm sure they all 'tapped him up' the same as we did, difference being we did a better job of it and convinced him we were the only club for him and unsettled him. This was then spread all over the media and royally ********** them off. They didn't want to sell, just like us and Coutinho, and that was the end of that.
    Rose tinted view
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    Insane or a quality defender signed for 20 million more than we allegedly were going to pay
    If we buy him for 90m and he doesn't do to well, fans on here would crucify klopp for signing a player with no CL experience and making it internationally two years ago!
    Last edited by FSG-VanBasten; 9-10-17 at 16:43.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Sounds like that's what you're insinuating.

    I bet Saints would have threatened the same with any other club if they had come in with a serious offer is my point, I'm sure they all 'tapped him up' the same as we did, difference being we did a better job of it and convinced him we were the only club for him and unsettled him. This was then spread all over the media and royally ********** them off. They didn't want to sell, just like us and Coutinho, and that was the end of that.
    Pretty much. Our 'dirty tactics' would have been welcomed by most on here as a way of forcing the move through. He only wanted us, handed in a transfer request, made it public. We did everything and he was desperate to join.

    Saints said no, simple as.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    the signings are down to klopp. hes been given the funds.
    It's not his job to go looking for suitable players, at least I hope it's not. Klopp hasn't got enough hours in the day for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    Rose tinted view
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    https://www.theguardian.com/football...le-southampton

    This statement pretty much sums it all up. He was never for sale. They wanted to make a statement. A new vision with the new joint owners to show they are no longer a club that will sell at the players will.

    We did pretty much all we could. Very similar to the coutinho situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterPoolStark View Post
    It's not his job to go looking for suitable players, at least I hope it's not. Klopp hasn't got enough hours in the day for that.
    He is the head of it. Example andy renshaw has been sacked and it appears it was klopp who wanted the change. No way would he be sacked if klopp wanted him.
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