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Thread: Jurgen Klopp - Episode III

  1. #31  
    lfcstlouis is offline Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    People need to drop this idea that Howedes would have been the savoir for our defensive unit.

    The 29 year old, who is currently injured and often injured, would not have stopped the obvious issues we have.

    I get that 'idea' of Howedes, meaning we brought in a first team CB not named Virgil, but he would not have solved our weak midfield and sloppy set piece defending.
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    You are absolutely right but that in itself raises a huge concern – because Lovren and others have been coached under Klopp for 2 years now and we are still an absolute circus at the back.

    How long until you decide the player isn't going to improve, or that the manager's coaching isn't working? Surely 2 years of coaching, day after day, is enough? Or shall we wait 3, 4, 5 years?

    The fact he was prepared to bring a defender in shows he doesn't have complete faith in Lovren and/or Matip. The biggest problem is quite clearly he made an error (stubbornness?) in giving the transfer committee a target list of one. I doubt we will see that happen again.
    Maybe it was an error, im not excusing him, I dont think there is anything wrong with wanting to go after only one CB though, as long as he was entirely attainable.
    Do we even know how our manager and committee work together to chose targets ?

    If it is how you say, klopp gives them his list, then I think we would have been able to get the one defender we wanted, if the people handling the transfer situation were actually any good at it.

    My main criticism is that he seems far too keen to rotate players, many of our players never really get used to playing with each other.
    It would be nice to have one large fully interchangeable squad, but I cannot see us getting that without at least having a decent starting team to build it around, and we dont have that yet.
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  3. #33  
    +Shriekback+ is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    People need to drop this idea that Howedes would have been the savoir for our defensive unit.

    The 29 year old, who is currently injured and often injured, would not have stopped the obvious issues we have.

    I get that 'idea' of Howedes, meaning we brought in a first team CB not named Virgil, but he would not have solved our weak midfield and sloppy set piece defending.
    His experience would have most certainly of helped us, and he played alongside Matip. Klopp could still sign VVD in Jan. 3 very good defenders is what we need.

    He would not have solved most of the defensive problems but made a difference, his experience giving off a calming, assured effect at the back. Matip & Howedes? would have been a great little fix.
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    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
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  5. #35  
    fredthecamel is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    People need to drop this idea that Howedes would have been the savoir for our defensive unit.

    The 29 year old, who is currently injured and often injured, would not have stopped the obvious issues we have.

    I get that 'idea' of Howedes, meaning we brought in a first team CB not named Virgil, but he would not have solved our weak midfield and sloppy set piece defending.
    he s also a leader and organiser

    he would have helkped
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    My main criticism is that he seems far too keen to rotate players, many of our players never really get used to playing with each other.
    It would be nice to have one large fully interchangeable squad, but I cannot see us getting that without at least having a decent starting team to build it around, and we dont have that yet.
    The season is barely a month old and we've already played 9 matches with the bulk of the squad also being involved in 2 international matches. We play at a similar pace for the next month as well. Trying to play a consistent XI under those conditions is asking to end October with most of the starting line-up thoroughly exhausted and/or on the crock list. You have to either rotate players singly or have close to an entire second squad to swap out for lesser matches. I seriously doubt anyone will argue that swapping an entire XI is a good idea for us at this point in time (do you really want to regularly see the squad that played Tuesday minus Coutinho?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredthecamel View Post
    he s also a leader and organiser

    he would have helkped
    How, exactly, would a player who's been injured all season help?
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Maybe it was an error, im not excusing him, I dont think there is anything wrong with wanting to go after only one CB though, as long as he was entirely attainable.
    Do we even know how our manager and committee work together to chose targets ?

    If it is how you say, klopp gives them his list, then I think we would have been able to get the one defender we wanted, if the people handling the transfer situation were actually any good at it.

    My main criticism is that he seems far too keen to rotate players, many of our players never really get used to playing with each other.
    It would be nice to have one large fully interchangeable squad, but I cannot see us getting that without at least having a decent starting team to build it around, and we dont have that yet.
    I was expecting to see more rotation this season than last - but I've been surprised at how much we've seen so soon, especially at the back. I agree it probably isn't helping.

    Just thinking though, despite there being relatively little change in our squad from the transfer window - only 4 signings and no significant departures other than Lucas - we've had a lot of changes forced on us by various means: no Lallana or Clyne so far through long-term injuries, Coutinho missing the end of preseason/first few games due to interest from Barca, Mane's sending off and suspension, Lovren's back, Wijnaldum and Robertson both becoming fathers...the opportunity to start last season's first XI with just the odd change hasn't really presented itself too often.

    We're still in September and we've already been deprived of half of last season's starting XI for periods. A change of luck wouldn't go amiss.
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  9. #39  
    fredthecamel is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    How, exactly, would a player who's been injured all season help?
    dunno but gomez is expected to
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdoggydog View Post
    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
    opinions
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  11. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    People need to drop this idea that Howedes would have been the savoir for our defensive unit.

    The 29 year old, who is currently injured and often injured, would not have stopped the obvious issues we have.

    I get that 'idea' of Howedes, meaning we brought in a first team CB not named Virgil, but he would not have solved our weak midfield and sloppy set piece defending.
    But his name sounds cool.

    I reckon we should go for Pawel Polinski-Pentos from the Greek league. Because... I saw videos from YouTube, you know, highlights of his playing, 5 seconds here and there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanBro View Post
    But his name sounds cool.

    I reckon we should go for Pawel Polinski-Pentos from the Greek league. Because... I saw videos from YouTube, you know, highlights of his playing, 5 seconds here and there.
    shut up
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  13. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdoggydog View Post
    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
    LOL
    Ozil, the lazy one from Arsenal? The one who disappears in games? That Ozil?
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  14. #44  
    KlopJob is offline Armchair supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdoggydog View Post
    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
    You are sleep talking. Ask any Arsenal fan if Ozil had performed well for the past few seasons, and they will tell you the player can leave Arsenal anytime.
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  15. #45  
    steviewonder87 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdoggydog View Post
    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
    What are they smoking over there at the Emirates?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    I was expecting to see more rotation this season than last - but I've been surprised at how much we've seen so soon, especially at the back. I agree it probably isn't helping.

    Just thinking though, despite there being relatively little change in our squad from the transfer window - only 4 signings and no significant departures other than Lucas - we've had a lot of changes forced on us by various means: no Lallana or Clyne so far through long-term injuries, Coutinho missing the end of preseason/first few games due to interest from Barca, Mane's sending off and suspension, Lovren's back, Wijnaldum and Robertson both becoming fathers...the opportunity to start last season's first XI with just the odd change hasn't really presented itself too often.

    We're still in September and we've already been deprived of half of last season's starting XI for periods. A change of luck wouldn't go amiss.
    Aye I realise that rotation is an important part of the game nowadays, but it does seem like we do it every game, even when we are not forced, even on the back of a winning game at arsenal we made several changes, it just seems excessive.

    Do the other top teams change their teams about as much as we do ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Aye I realise that rotation is an important part of the game nowadays, but it does seem like we do it every game, even when we are not forced, even on the back of a winning game at arsenal we made several changes, it just seems excessive.

    Do the other top teams change their teams about as much as we do ?
    I'd be surprised if they have so far this season...but then we have played two extra games vs Hoffenheim compared to most of our rivals, so perhaps there's some justification...it's just the fact that most of the changes have been to our back 4+keeper - more than anywhere else that's where most managers prefer stability, and we could arguably use that more than most.
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  18. #48  
    lfcstlouis is offline Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shriekback View Post
    His experience would have most certainly of helped us, and he played alongside Matip. Klopp could still sign VVD in Jan. 3 very good defenders is what we need.

    He would not have solved most of the defensive problems but made a difference, his experience giving off a calming, assured effect at the back. Matip & Howedes? would have been a great little fix.
    Agreed here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdoggydog View Post
    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
    Are you guys in Emirates needs donations from us again?
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  20. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    I'd be surprised if they have so far this season...but then we have played two extra games vs Hoffenheim compared to most of our rivals, so perhaps there's some justification...it's just the fact that most of the changes have been to our back 4+keeper - more than anywhere else that's where most managers prefer stability, and we could arguably use that more than most.
    Yea I have always thought that swapping defenders and the keeper about at the same time is just asking for it, we actually had a decent fully functioning defence under Kenny when Steve Clarke was coaching them, then BR decided to get rid of Pepe at the same time as our centre backs and that is when it went wrong again for me, never been the same since.

    I agree with the luck thing from before as well, our first choice defensive pairing cant seem to stay fit !
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    Agreed. And the media seem to have stirred it a lot, so much so some of our fans are almost obsessed with the fact that we didn't sign VVD (or Keita this window) and using it as some kind of media generated stick to beat Klopp with any time he does anything might be called wrong.

    A lot of our recent issues stemmed from Mane's red card, then again didn't they also last season when he went off to ACN? (fortunately Klopp can't be blamed for that or some might, although some will always point to lack of cover)


    Man City - thrashed by one of the best sides in this league away, the scoreline was bad, the performance wasn't great, but once Mane was sent off then the team went to bits.

    Sevilla - could have won, should have won perhaps, but they are the best team in the group unless we're going to contradict ourselves by suggesting we are....


    Bumley - should have won, didn't have Mane and so lots of shots, conceded (as usual) from one of their few shots and couldn't win.

    Leicester - were the better side first half, Ox aside, and couldn't put chances away. Beggars belief that the defence gets so much grief whilst the attackers squander chance after chance


    Any coincidence our worst results (Man City, Bumley and Leicester) were without Mane, and Klopp can hardly be blamed for his sending off. Some could argue we lack a strong attack without Mane, but then why keep banging on about VVD and the defence then...........?!?



    How about the shot count :

    Leicester 8-21 Liverpool
    Liverpool 35-5 Bumley
    Liverpool 24-7 Sevilla
    Man City 13-7 Liverpool

    Sure we've conceded 10 goals from just 33 shots against, but far more worrying is we've had EIGHTY-SEVEN shots in those four games at an average of TWENTY TWO a gam and scored just THREE goals - one goal for every TWENTY NINE shots............ (compared to one goal every three shots against) Neither stat is particularly great for us, but I'd hope to score at least twice as many goals from that many shots as we did... Even one every eight or nine shots would set us on parity

    I think both ends are worrying but there is no forward motion. Nothing you can point to and say. Oh hes trying to do this and it will just need a little time for the players to get it. He hasnt changed how this team approaches games almost in the entire time he has been at Liverpool.

    Simple fact of the matter is he and the team badly need some results. If not all this hoopla is just going to get worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamsmyth View Post
    Simple fact of the matter is he and the team badly need some results. If not all this hoopla is just going to get worse.
    Simple fact of the matter is the hoopla is pretty OTT compared to the reality.

    5-0 at Man City-we looked very competitive, most would even say the better side, until the Mane red card flipped the game on its ear
    2-2 vs Sevilla score line terribly flattered them but fact is they are one of the top rated clubs in the world and favored to win our CL group, not a bad result but people lost their minds
    1-1 vs Burnley score line again flatters the opposition who, by the way, not so long ago went in and won at Chelsea, this isn't a relegation bound bottom feeder
    2-0 at Leicester we played mostly 2nd-4th string, they played 1st/2nd, we dominated for a half anyway until we pulled the one first team attacker

    So a string of results that didn't necessarily reflect the performances or quality of our side are being blown up as this massive disaster that threatens Klopp's tenure? Madness...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    Simple fact of the matter is the hoopla is pretty OTT compared to the reality.

    5-0 at Man City-we looked very competitive, most would even say the better side, until the Mane red card flipped the game on its ear
    2-2 vs Sevilla score line terribly flattered them but fact is they are one of the top rated clubs in the world and favored to win our CL group, not a bad result but people lost their minds
    1-1 vs Burnley score line again flatters the opposition who, by the way, not so long ago went in and won at Chelsea, this isn't a relegation bound bottom feeder
    2-0 at Leicester we played mostly 2nd-4th string, they played 1st/2nd, we dominated for a half anyway until we pulled the one first team attacker

    So a string of results that didn't necessarily reflect the performances or quality of our side are being blown up as this massive disaster that threatens Klopp's tenure? Madness...
    They're not exactly Barca or Madrid. They aren't even in the top 20 biggest brands in the sport or on the money list.

    Most said when the draw came out we should beat them, especially at home. This is revisionism.

    As to your overall points, I don't really get it. What are you saying? That we were unlucky to lose? Perhaps, but we did lose, and thats a problem for a team who last year finished top 4 and has openly stated they want to take a step forward this season. Being "unlucky" in a handful of games can ruin your season when you are wanting to compete at the top.

    We are lucky that its early in the season and, as I have mentioned before, we are a side who will go on a great run at some stage and get back up there. But the fact remains, "back up there" means competing for 4th again. Even the transfer window - missing out on one top target and deciding to wait and signing the other top target for next year - felt like a holding (or hold on) strategy, and everything thats happened on the field so far has backed that up. It's like we're happy to just maintain this yer, because next year will be the big one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredb_7 View Post
    They're not exactly Barca or Madrid. They aren't even in the top 20 biggest brands in the sport or on the money list.
    Who cares about reputation or the money list. They are the #6 ranked club in Europe based on performance, which, at the end of the day, is what actually matters...

    As for what "most said"... what "most" would that be? Homer journo's, forum fans, etc.? Of course they would say that, it's called bias. Most neutral-ish (so-called) experts I saw had Sevilla to win the group with us finishing second comfortably and we are on pace to do exactly that.

    As far as what I'm saying? I'm saying that people are greatly exaggerating how bad things are and trying to stir up drama with all the "Klopp is in serious trouble" and such posts sprouting all over the forums and in the click-bait rags.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdoggydog View Post
    if klopp can use his german power to bring mesut ozil to this club we will be the best club in england. mesut is the greatest attacking midfielder to ever exist and him and werner (another german who klopp should get) would walk through this league. we should sell coutinho and play ozil behind mane and werner. ozil is a must buy before arsenal get him to sign a contract extension or he goes to bayern, madrid or barca
    Youíre Arsene arenít you. Trying to flog us your mistakes. Look pal Kloppy has already gifted you £40m for one of your reserves. Find another mug manager.
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    I see Hoffenheim are third in the Bundesliga, including a 2-0 win against Bayern.

    We beat them over two legs with relative ease too.
    'Okey doke, we'll leave it there so'
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHed2 View Post
    I see Hoffenheim are third in the Bundesliga, including a 2-0 win against Bayern.

    We beat them over two legs with relative ease too.
    Sooo..... We're better than Bayern?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterPoolStark View Post
    Sooo..... We're better than Bayern?!?


    Sure didn't we beat them 3-0?
    'Okey doke, we'll leave it there so'
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  29. #59  
    MacFoley'1975 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    What are they smoking over there at the Emirates?
    Looks like we have attracted another special snowflake.
    The Normal One (Emlyn is in the house) - Est 1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    Who cares about reputation or the money list. They are the #6 ranked club in Europe based on performance, which, at the end of the day, is what actually matters...
    No one should, but some are short sighted and only see ££££. Which of PSG and Sevilla has all the £££ and the big names, well some, and which has won FIVE European trophies in the past 11 seasons.............. Maybe not the top top competition, but better than throwing money with "ambition" with the ambition being to dominate in France and compete for the only trophy they are in worth winning - the European Cup.

    And how did the big spenders do in this competition? Well let's throw in Man City as well .....

    16/17 PSG L16, Man City L16,
    15/16 PSG QF, Man City SF - played each other in the QF so one was bound to progress
    14/15 PSG QF, Man City L16
    13/14 PSG QF, Man City L16
    12/13 PSG QF, Man City Group

    PSG got mullered in the 14/15 QF by the same opponents that narrowly beat Man City the in the Last 16. The PSG record reads much like the much vaunted (at the time) manc record of seven consecutive QFs or some such nothing of an accolade. A "big" club ought to get through the group stage, last eight in Europe which is what a quarter-final is hardly sets you ahead with the very best if you can't reach a semi more than once (between them in five seasons and might not have been that many if they hadn't played each other............)

    Sure Sevilla didn't get into that competition, not that often anyway, but the point is the big spend has not exactly done the big spenders much good. If we were to play Man City, Sevilla or PSG I would not be any more daunted by the big spenders and reckon our chances of a result/progression wouldn't be much different.
    People will believe what they want to believe
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