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Thread: Brexit...Deal or No Deal?

  1. #1441  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Looks to me like a hard Brexit has probably been avoided. The Irish border points to that.
    There was never going to be a hard Brexit unless the EU decided to punish us.

    We'll end up with something similar to what we have at the moment, as far as trade goes.

    Services may be the area we pay the real price of leaving.

    But today is a positive step at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Eiregen brings up a pharma company in google, I'm assuming this was not your intent? If it was, maybe a quick paragraph after would clear up any misunderstanding.

    Still looks very much like the direction is a soft Brexit which will have plenty of people up in arms.
    Who would be up in arms over a soft Brexit?, Britain First and the BNP?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    I've genuinely no idea what that means. Happy to engage, I just don't understand
    Just that its way to early imo to make that claim so it sounds like a statement of belief more than anything else.

    I've then guessed at what you've paid OUR 50 billion for. By process of elimination I ended up with 'a seat at the poker table'. I suppose what underpins my statements is you, having been floored at one point and thinking we're heading for WTO, you now have resurgent faith that things will work out the way you think.

    Nothings changed that I can see, so I guess the question is what do you see that renews your faith? That the bozos in charge will begin to act smart? That the raging sea of emotions that underpin the brexit vote will suddenly become calm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDREAMOFGINI View Post
    You are very wrong. It wants to enter ASAP and has support from many countries. The EU can't wait to get its hands on Ukraine as there's big money to be made from it with a large population, etc. The money the UK will give to the EU will go directly to Ukraine. I just hope the battled hardened solders of the UK aren't dragged into a war when Russia goes ape.
    We'll see. You might be right. Using UK exit payment to seed fund it's reduced contributions post exit, is a smart financial move. But do they have the bottle to make that play? Boris will not just stand by imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    That's a funny looking Brexit!

    Need to wait for the blow back. see how strong it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    A portmanteau of Eire and Schengen?

    As for the people up in arms, **** 'em
    Now we're getting to the denouement. The 'Tyranny of Democracy' vs common sense. Time to stand up to the hardliners.

    But can you legitimately do that without a second referendum? As we've been told so many times, out means out of everything. People voted to leave at any price - they rejected project fear. The hardliners have a valid argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    There was never going to be a hard Brexit unless the EU decided to punish us.

    We'll end up with something similar to what we have at the moment, as far as trade goes.

    Services may be the area we pay the real price of leaving.

    But today is a positive step at least.
    So that's what it was all about. Rebalancing the economy.

    But I do think you underestimate the forces on the exit side. 20 year fight to force a vote. Large number of hardliners in the cabinet. It ain't over yet.
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    May has made brave move. An act of faith that may re-establish her authority.

    In promising both sides of the Irish boarder they'll get what they want, she's kicked the can down the road. When asked how she would do that in parliament, she replied 'in phase 2'.

    That's a hell of a bargaining tool she's potentially gifted the EU, if she doesn't know the details of how to make it happen. She has to deliver a boarder solution that doesn't push Northern Ireland away from the rest of the UK. If I was on the opposite side of the fence, I'd be looking for ways to exploit that.

    Still, if the Irelands can live with it, may be she actually has something.
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    Farage: @ 4min 30s "we're signed up for all of our laws to be exactly in line with the rest of Europe which prevents us from becoming competitive"

    Just have a think about what he's saying there. We've the 5th best economy. Germany have the 4th. So we can become 4th best if we leave the EU whilst Germany is 4th best whilst in it. That tells me competitiveness is not to do with the EU. So which of the labour laws does he intend to get rid of to make us more competitive?

    He should be questioned in more depth on this topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Farage: @ 4min 30s "we're signed up for all of our laws to be exactly in line with the rest of Europe which prevents us from becoming competitive"

    Just have a think about what he's saying there. We've the 5th best economy. Germany have the 4th. So we can become 4th best if we leave the EU whilst Germany is 4th best whilst in it. That tells me competitiveness is not to do with the EU. So which of the labour laws does he intend to get rid of to make us more competitive?

    He should be questioned in more depth on this topic.
    What's the world's best economy?
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    The Brexit vote was a waking nightmare for me and this news has softened the blow somewhat.

    Brits living in Europe needed a soft Brexit, especially me. It could have been much worse.
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  12. #1452  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullenator View Post
    The Brexit vote was a waking nightmare for me and this news has softened the blow somewhat.

    Brits living in Europe needed a soft Brexit, especially me. It could have been much worse.
    ditto. But I will probably still apply for German citizenship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonStauffenberg View Post
    What's the world's best economy?
    US, but is not the best, is the largest. GDP per capita many other countries are ahead.


    According to http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...jected-gdp.php India is the 6th, soon to be 5th, largest economy, does it mean is the 6th richest country in the world? Does anyone in their right mind think Indian people are richer than Norwegians for example?

    GDP per capita is a better, albeit no perfect, measure.
    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...gdp-capita.php
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Farage: @ 4min 30s "we're signed up for all of our laws to be exactly in line with the rest of Europe which prevents us from becoming competitive"

    Just have a think about what he's saying there. We've the 5th best economy. Germany have the 4th. So we can become 4th best if we leave the EU whilst Germany is 4th best whilst in it. That tells me competitiveness is not to do with the EU. So which of the labour laws does he intend to get rid of to make us more competitive?

    He should be questioned in more depth on this topic.
    He is a clueless attention seeker, a failed trader that has made a living out of the EU. He should be made to return all the money he has been paid by the EU and to reimburse it to the NHS.
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    Recon Boris will be happy with the fee negotiated. He wasn't happy about the 100bn amount. What this Brexit will give us is the opportunity to trade with the rest of the world without Europe imposing regulations on that. Its good to have the best of both world's, trade with Europe and every other country. Ireland might want to join in on that deal too. As for Farage, he'll be pushing the hard Brexit on certain issues like security and immigration.
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  16. #1456  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    US, but is not the best, is the largest. GDP per capita many other countries are ahead.


    According to http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...jected-gdp.php India is the 6th, soon to be 5th, largest economy, does it mean is the 6th richest country in the world? Does anyone in their right mind think Indian people are richer than Norwegians for example?

    GDP per capita is a better, albeit no perfect, measure.
    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...gdp-capita.php
    Good. You gave the example of India ... even in the UK, the distribution of all this wealth is pitiful, which is more to the point. I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    US, but is not the best, is the largest. GDP per capita many other countries are ahead.


    According to http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...jected-gdp.php India is the 6th, soon to be 5th, largest economy, does it mean is the 6th richest country in the world? Does anyone in their right mind think Indian people are richer than Norwegians for example?

    GDP per capita is a better, albeit no perfect, measure.
    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...gdp-capita.php
    So why's it brought up all the time then? I'm not an economist. No nothing about economics, but I'm guessing the other 3 countries are not in the EU.
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  18. #1458  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    He is a clueless attention seeker, a failed trader that has made a living out of the EU. He should be made to return all the money he has been paid by the EU and to reimburse it to the NHS.
    Nail on the head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Just that its way to early imo to make that claim so it sounds like a statement of belief more than anything else.

    I've then guessed at what you've paid OUR 50 billion for. By process of elimination I ended up with 'a seat at the poker table'. I suppose what underpins my statements is you, having been floored at one point and thinking we're heading for WTO, you now have resurgent faith that things will work out the way you think.

    Nothings changed that I can see, so I guess the question is what do you see that renews your faith? That the bozos in charge will begin to act smart? That the raging sea of emotions that underpin the brexit vote will suddenly become calm?
    Not at all, we've made commitments, it would be damaging to our international standing and our relationship with the EU were we not to honour them. It's small potatoes compared to the money involved in that relationship. It's also a key part of the withdrawal, without it we can't move on in the sequencing. It's a very pragmatic decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Now we're getting to the denouement. The 'Tyranny of Democracy' vs common sense. Time to stand up to the hardliners.

    But can you legitimately do that without a second referendum? As we've been told so many times, out means out of everything. People voted to leave at any price - they rejected project fear. The hardliners have a valid argument.
    Out means out of the EU. Not sure what 'everything' means. Everything that the EU has an involvement in? WTO?
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  20. #1460  
    Jannno is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Now we're getting to the denouement. The 'Tyranny of Democracy' vs common sense. Time to stand up to the hardliners.

    But can you legitimately do that without a second referendum? As we've been told so many times, out means out of everything. People voted to leave at any price - they rejected project fear. The hardliners have a valid argument.
    I think 'Out' means what the people currently in power think they can get away with, notwithstanding an uprising by the people. Whichever side had won, neither gave a valid argument and it's only now as we play it out that we all see what the consequences are beginning to be. Still a lot for us all to find out. That's the strongest argument for a second referendum or an election with a choice of 'in' and 'out' parties when we know what the future would hold. Problem with the latter argument, ie an election to decide, is that the party on the losing side is effectively saying they think it's bad for the country to be in/out of Europe, respectively, so what happens to them in future elections when the decision went against them? It significantly weakens their claim to govern afterwards imo.

    The stakes are very high for all sides. Hardliners know its a fight to their demise if they don't get it this time.
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    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    So that's what it was all about. Rebalancing the economy.

    But I do think you underestimate the forces on the exit side. 20 year fight to force a vote. Large number of hardliners in the cabinet. It ain't over yet.
    It depends what you mean by "hardliners".

    There aren't that many who want wto rules.

    The vast majority want what is being touted by May.

    Leave the single market and customs union as it is now...but keep alignment on trade standards which would allow a decent deal to be done on that...and allow us to negotiate 3rd party deals and control free movement...when it is in the national interest to control it.

    If Labour got behind this...because it is what they want too...then Mogg and the others would be irrelevant.

    Labour banging on about staying in the single market and customs union, just empowers the zealots.

    Maybe Labour want a crap deal to help them win the next election...so they can blame their future mistakes on it.
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  22. #1462  
    Jannno is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    He is a clueless attention seeker, a failed trader that has made a living out of the EU. He should be made to return all the money he has been paid by the EU and to reimburse it to the NHS.
    I think there's more behind the bluff 'blokey' exterior than he wants us to think. Hasn't he been linked with the Cambridge Analytics company that was driving social media content to influence the US election - I'm a bit lost in the who did what behind the scenes in all that. A non-entity doesn't get invited to Trump's inner sanctum the day after he's made president if he hasn't done something for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannno View Post
    I think there's more behind the bluff 'blokey' exterior than he wants us to think. Hasn't he been linked with the Cambridge Analytics company that was driving social media content to influence the US election - I'm a bit lost in the who did what behind the scenes in all that. A non-entity doesn't get invited to Trump's inner sanctum the day after he's made president if he hasn't done something for him.
    Without re-reading the whole thread. Who are you talking about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    US, but is not the best, is the largest. GDP per capita many other countries are ahead.


    According to http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...jected-gdp.php India is the 6th, soon to be 5th, largest economy, does it mean is the 6th richest country in the world? Does anyone in their right mind think Indian people are richer than Norwegians for example?

    GDP per capita is a better, albeit no perfect, measure.
    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...gdp-capita.php
    Does that mean India will start sending us Aid instead of us still sending them some?!?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaze31 View Post
    Does that mean India will start sending us Aid instead of us still sending them some?!?!
    No dude. Its stuff and that. You know, it is what it is. The political elite deem it's right we send money around the world, even though the vast majority of normal human beings in the UK see it as a bag of ***** doesn't matter. If you get all your views from people on here, you're ******. The people on here are the minority, not the majority of the UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaze31 View Post
    Does that mean India will start sending us Aid instead of us still sending them some?!?!
    Nah. It means that if you want a trade deal with them, then you will have to increase the aid money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannno View Post
    I think there's more behind the bluff 'blokey' exterior than he wants us to think. Hasn't he been linked with the Cambridge Analytics company that was driving social media content to influence the US election - I'm a bit lost in the who did what behind the scenes in all that. A non-entity doesn't get invited to Trump's inner sanctum the day after he's made president if he hasn't done something for him.
    He has powerful friends but all of that is down to him using his influence as a MEP over the years, ironically without the EU he would be a complete nobody.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonStauffenberg View Post
    So why's it brought up all the time then? I'm not an economist. No nothing about economics, but I'm guessing the other 3 countries are not in the EU.
    There is no much between the French and the British economy size, often one is above the other depending on the currency exchange rate. The top 3 countries has much larger population than any of the EU countries, so that’s why, when you look at GDP per citizen then the ranking changes.

    If you go deeper into standards of living/wealth then is generally accepted that in Europe the Scandinavian countries are ahead of everyone else. Then you have the likes of Switzerland, Austria and Germany. I would put the likes of Holland, Ireland, UK, France and Belgium in the following group.

    Of course this is all still subjective to other “qualify life” factors, which are also important, Finland despite its high standard of living has a much higher suicide rate than Greece for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDREAMOFGINI View Post
    Recon Boris will be happy with the fee negotiated. He wasn't happy about the 100bn amount. What this Brexit will give us is the opportunity to trade with the rest of the world without Europe imposing regulations on that. Its good to have the best of both world's, trade with Europe and every other country. Ireland might want to join in on that deal too. As for Farage, he'll be pushing the hard Brexit on certain issues like security and immigration.
    Never heard of that 100 bn figure, probably just an invention of the tabloids.
    Believe it or not the U.K. has been trading with the rest of the world for many years, well before the EU existed and through the last 44 years.

    I think you mean it would be able to signs free trade agreements with the rest of the world? No, that won’t happen as there are many countries that don’t do free trade agreements for starters, I think you can guess who they are, there are other countries that use free trade to dump their goods on your country, and as result destroying industries there, there are some obvious examples out there, some of them don’t even need a free trade agreement to do that. In reality what will happen is that the U.K. would need years, or decades, to keep the trade agreements it currently has through the EU and perhaps the ex-colony to make up the numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonStauffenberg View Post
    What's the world's best economy?
    The USA. Not in the EU. I know. But have you seen the size of their economy compared to ours? A lot of that is to do with the size of their internal market.

    In terms of world economy
    US = 24.3%
    EU = 21.37% (UK's part is 3.4% Germany 4.5%
    China 14.8% but growing fast

    A good part of the population believe we can cut better deal with trade areas further away. I'm happy to be convinced. Literally. I can stop being concerned about my kids and friends futures.

    Just so you know, I'm not an EU fan. I can live comfortably with brexit in terms of sovereignty and all the soft stuff. So there's no need to deviate from the finances of all this.

    So that's a full response to your question I think.. Now why do you ask it?
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