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Thread: Brexit...Deal or No Deal?

  1. #241  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    There are not many people I dislike. But I can not dislike you as I dont know you. But you really come out with just blurts as far as I am concerned. Ever try looking into things for a change?
    Belief systems avoid facts.
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  2. #242  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Toyota to build Auris in the UK...on the assumption we get a transitional deal with the EU.

    So that's another incentive for the EU not to give us one.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  3. #243  
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    If we go for a soft brexit we gain all the benefits of being within the EU except we lose our voice.
    If we go for a hard brexit the EU has us by the cahoonas as we don't have a plan.
    The only sensible option that remains on the table it to remain.

    Another vote is essential right now, especially due to the leave campaigns lies. Voters who voted to leave will have changed their minds at seeing the lack of planning and direction their decision now entails. The instability is causing major issues in the market and the economy is suffering as a result.
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  4. #244  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Surely, that's must please you. You've led us to believe you want to walk away. Pay them nothing. etc. You should be applauding them not sanctioning them for lack of progress.
    It does. I don't care if there is no progress because they want to give us s bad deal.just looks like other people are worried about the lack of progress and are blaming the Tories.do you expect us to bend over backwards and cave in to Eu demands?
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    It does. I don't care if there is no progress because they want to give us s bad deal.just looks like other people are worried about the lack of progress and are blaming the Tories.do you expect us to bend over backwards and cave in to Eu demands?
    What!? People are blaming the party in power who run the government over their lack of progress on Brexit?!

    The UK has gone mad clearly
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  6. #246  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Toyota to build Auris in the UK...on the assumption we get a transitional deal with the EU.

    So that's another incentive for the EU not to give us one.
    I don't see the logic in that, can you expand on this?
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  7. #247  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    I don't see the logic in that, can you expand on this?
    Because they'd rather the model be made in the EU.
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  8. #248  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Because they'd rather the model be made in the EU.
    This is completely insignificant for the EU, what that would represent something like 0.001% of total of the total car production in the EU? why such an irrelevance would be even in the agenda for the EU?
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  9. #249  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    This is completely insignificant for the EU, what that would represent something like 0.001% of total of the total car production in the EU? why such an irrelevance would be even in the agenda for the EU?
    It wouldn't be insignificant for the country who got the plant...and it is ultimately the member states who will determine whether there is a deal or not.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  10. #250  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    It wouldn't be insignificant for the country who got the plant...and it is ultimately the member states who will determine whether there is a deal or not.
    Its significant for Toyota to have a production line in the eu. No tariffs, cheaper cars and bigger sales
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  11. #251  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    It does. I don't care if there is no progress because they want to give us s bad deal.just looks like other people are worried about the lack of progress and are blaming the Tories.do you expect us to bend over backwards and cave in to Eu demands?
    No definitely not.

    I expect us, and always have, to make a costly move like leaving the EU with some kind of clue about what to do and a workable plan of action to back that up. That's all I've ever wanted. That's all I want now. I don't care about the EU. Never have. I care about the social and economic cost of leaving the EU and the possible cost to and impact on this nations people. Especially those most vulnerable who tended to vote for it.

    I voted remain because there was no plan other than to pull those union jack trollies as high up our chest as possible and walk out in to the snow.

    How long do I have to wait for the brexiting leadership figures to get their **** together on this? What are brexiters doing to light a rocket up their rear end? I've written to my MP. I plan to see him. I may do more if I can figure out what.

    What have you done?

    You really ought to read more broadly. You'd benefit from it.
    Last edited by Luises-Finger; 6-10-17 at 13:26.
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  12. #252  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    It wouldn't be insignificant for the country who got the plant...and it is ultimately the member states who will determine whether there is a deal or not.
    And which country would get the plant?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    No definitely not.

    I expect us, and always have, to make a costly move like leaving the EU with some kind of clue about what to do and a workable plan of action to back that up. That's all I've ever wanted. That's all I want now. I don't care about the EU. Never have. I care about the social and economic cost of leaving the EU and the possible cost to and impact on this nations people. Especially those most vulnerable who tended to vote for it.

    I voted remain because there was no plan other than to pull those union jack trollies as high up our chest as possible and walk out in to the snow.

    How long do I have to wait for the brexiting leadership figures to get their **** together on this? What are brexiters doing to light a rocket up their rear end? I've written to my MP. I plan to see him. I may do more if I can figure out what.

    What have you done?

    You really ought to read more broadly. You'd benefit from it.
    This is why we need another vote. There is no plan so we don't have to go ahead with this madness.

    It's part of a good democracy to let the people decide as often as possible especially with something that's likely to be set in stone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Its significant for Toyota to have a production line in the eu. No tariffs, cheaper cars and bigger sales
    Yes, most likely they would relocate in the long run, even if there is a deal it would be outside of the customs union, no real incentive for them to have such a big plant in the UK if imports and exports are not straight forward. It would be far easier to export to the finished goods (the car).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Em-inLeam View Post
    This is why we need another vote. There is no plan so we don't have to go ahead with this madness.

    It's part of a good democracy to let the people decide as often as possible especially with something that's likely to be set in stone.
    I can't see that to be honest, and by the time this could happen the UK would be effectively out anyway, meaning a new application would have to be made and would be far from straight forward. I don't expect the UK to be in the EU in the next decade at lest, and to be honest that's better for everyone.
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  16. #256  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Em-inLeam View Post
    If we go for a soft brexit we gain all the benefits of being within the EU except we lose our voice.
    If we go for a hard brexit the EU has us by the cahoonas as we don't have a plan.
    The only sensible option that remains on the table it to remain.
    Nonsense
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  17. #257  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    Nonsense
    You are so cute.
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    Everyone, but one person in particular, read this

    I would like to quickly run through a few points that should be well understood, or even better understood. The United Kingdom decided to leave the European Union. That was its sovereign decision. It is also leaving as the UK government made clear the Single Market and the Customs Union. After 44 years of integration, I would recommend that nobody underestimates the complexity and the legal, human, social, economic, and financial difficulties of this decision. And I recommend that those who made this decision should shoulder the consequences.
    The EU are not the problem, we are. Full transcript here: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release...17-3681_en.htm

    And before anyone says this is posturing, it isn't. It's simple fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    Everyone, but one person in particular, read this



    The EU are not the problem, we are. Full transcript here: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release...17-3681_en.htm

    And before anyone says this is posturing, it isn't. It's simple fact.
    Also
    "European Union taxpayers cannot pay for the consequences of Brexit."
    Well they might. But it's not an unreasonable expectation on their part.

    It was your request to have a short transition period. It is our right to say that this will be subject to the conditions of the Single Market. We were not surprised by this request for a transition period. We foresaw it. We will discuss it at the appropriate time, and that time has not yet come. I would need a mandate for this. I would like to tell Mr. Farage a simple legal point: the trade deal you want cannot be signed by a Member State of the Union. You need to have legally left before we sign this trade deal.
    The hard brexiters look likely to get their wish of a full fat brexit. For the EU negotiators this was always going to be discussions on exit. Not trade and attached strings. It could be nothing else for them. Hence my insistence since early in the previous version of this thread, on the need for the UK to prepare for life with WTO rules and regs.

    Things are crystallising. The markets and businesses are inevitably going to accept the underlined bits and act accordingly. They'll be more confident in us if they see a UK prepared, ready and waiting for their new world. Even if that world looks hostile.

    Meanwhile our governing party are doing the exact opposite. Playing at the old children's favourite game of 'King of the Castle'. Deck-chairs and Titanic or what?
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    I understand the desire to blame all brexit issues on our incompetent government - but please, some of the stuff written about the EU making out they have been nothing but honest brokers, and have their hands tied is blinkered BS.

    There is more than enough pettiness and incompetence on both sides. Make no mistake, we might have opened this hole, but now the EU are right there with us taking everything to hell. It never needed to be this way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    Also
    Well they might. But it's not an unreasonable expectation on their part.



    The hard brexiters look likely to get their wish of a full fat brexit. For the EU negotiators this was always going to be discussions on exit. Not trade and attached strings. It could be nothing else for them. Hence my insistence since early in the previous version of this thread, on the need for the UK to prepare for life with WTO rules and regs.

    Things are crystallising. The markets and businesses are inevitably going to accept the underlined bits and act accordingly. They'll be more confident in us if they see a UK prepared, ready and waiting for their new world. Even if that world looks hostile.

    Meanwhile our governing party are doing the exact opposite. Playing at the old children's favourite game of 'King of the Castle'. Deck-chairs and Titanic or what?
    He didn't really need to give the time of the day to a clown like Farage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I understand the desire to blame all brexit issues on our incompetent government - but please, some of the stuff written about the EU making out they have been nothing but honest brokers, and have their hands tied is blinkered BS.

    There is more than enough pettiness and incompetence on both sides. Make no mistake, we might have opened this hole, but now the EU are right there with us taking everything to hell. It never needed to be this way.
    When you have no plan at all. It's your own fault for being unprepared when everyone tries to take advantage of the situation you created
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I understand the desire to blame all brexit issues on our incompetent government - but please, some of the stuff written about the EU making out they have been nothing but honest brokers, and have their hands tied is blinkered BS.

    There is more than enough pettiness and incompetence on both sides. Make no mistake, we might have opened this hole, but now the EU are right there with us taking everything to hell. It never needed to be this way.
    Yep - whilst the governments of Britain have a lot to answer for - the EU played its part in this as well

    If the club was so good why did people want change
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  24. #264  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Yep - whilst the governments of Britain have a lot to answer for - the EU played its part in this as well

    If the club was so good why did people want change
    Certainly has its neoliberal element. A very big part of the EU has been doing exactly the things Thatcher and the cons have been promoting for the last 40 years. Favouring wealth and corporations. However, as I keep on saying... to varying degrees. Germany never really privatised its big corporations like VW, RWE, EON, or Deutsche Bahn ... large chunks of which are still owned by the German State. You will find that with other European countries too.

    However, the UK sort of went the whole hog on this and people are wondering why conditions are so bad? When the corporations hike up their prices and invest zilch in the maintenance or renewal of infrastructure.... The only thing I would say is that the "blame" has fallen on the wrong people... the EU.

    Listen to Mark Blyth when he talks about the economic disaster in Europe ... and that needless to say falls more heavily on the UK for persisting with economic ideology from the Thatcher days ... The important part is that a huge percentage of unqualified people have been thrown on to the scrap heap ... to be policed and controlled.... Only UKIP capitalised on this to blame their woes somewhere else ... EU and immigrants.... The real problems are systemic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_5I0tsP7g
    Last edited by dreams-come-true; 7-10-17 at 12:13.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I understand the desire to blame all brexit issues on our incompetent government - but please, some of the stuff written about the EU making out they have been nothing but honest brokers, and have their hands tied is blinkered BS.

    There is more than enough pettiness and incompetence on both sides. Make no mistake, we might have opened this hole, but now the EU are right there with us taking everything to hell. It never needed to be this way.
    Exactly, UK and EU both have their faults both need to get their acts together.

    I didn't like the way the EU was headed and made my decision on that, which is my right to do so like millions others have.

    I accept it's a extremely tough ask especially when we've become so integrated, too much imho but not enough to actually have our voices and concerns heard.
    The EU had a chance to reform Europe they could have made changes and kept everyone happy, but unfortunately the powers that be within Brussels have a clear vision of one giant superstate gaining more powers and decision making.

    Us British were once the leaders of the free world we changed the world, revolutionized ways of life from the language, technology, transportation, Health, Laws.

    You think this Brexit is going to end us? We're British we succeed, we will make this work.
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  26. #266  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaze31 View Post
    Exactly, UK and EU both have their faults both need to get their acts together.

    I didn't like the way the EU was headed and made my decision on that, which is my right to do so like millions others have.

    I accept it's a extremely tough ask especially when we've become so integrated, too much imho but not enough to actually have our voices and concerns heard.
    The EU had a chance to reform Europe they could have made changes and kept everyone happy, but unfortunately the powers that be within Brussels have a clear vision of one giant superstate gaining more powers and decision making.

    Us British were once the leaders of the free world we changed the world, revolutionized ways of life from the language, technology, transportation, Health, Laws.

    You think this Brexit is going to end us? We're British we succeed, we will make this work.
    Got a plan? A business plan? What is going to earn Britain the moneyy to keep itself afloat? I dont see the Tories having a plan. I do see Corbyn going on the right track though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    Got a plan? A business plan? What is going to earn Britain the moneyy to keep itself afloat? I dont see the Tories having a plan. I do see Corbyn going on the right track though.
    You could create a inflation and create a standard similar to Romania and Bulgaria to create opportunities for production and exports
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I understand the desire to blame all brexit issues on our incompetent government - but please, some of the stuff written about the EU making out they have been nothing but honest brokers, and have their hands tied is blinkered BS.

    There is more than enough pettiness and incompetence on both sides. Make no mistake, we might have opened this hole, but now the EU are right there with us taking everything to hell. It never needed to be this way.
    Sure. But article 50 is about the exit, not what happens afterwards. They're being entirely reasonable in demanding we sort the bill, NI and citizen's rights. Those are the terms of leaving. Our insistence that we should be negotiating a new relationship is absurd, we can start talking about a framework but not until those three issues are sorted.
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  29. #269  
    davevietnam is online now Academy prospect
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    Concerning Northern Ireland and Brexit why is it such a big problem to overcome, obviously you will have an open border between the UK and the EU but Ireland has a whole is an island so surely if all goods and people from that Island where treated at the first port of entry as coming from the EU till proved otherwise is it then really such a big problem.

    It may well be an inconvenience for goods and people from NI but thats far better than what an internal border would cause, I ask as I genuinely do not know or see it as such a big problem, what am I missing, what are the main problems that could be caused by lets say doing nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    Sure. But article 50 is about the exit, not what happens afterwards. They're being entirely reasonable in demanding we sort the bill, NI and citizen's rights. Those are the terms of leaving. Our insistence that we should be negotiating a new relationship is absurd, we can start talking about a framework but not until those three issues are sorted.
    Yes, i honest think once we get those key issues resolved then future negotiations will be easier.

    Pay what we actually owe up to end of the 7 year period which is the 2 year transition that's been requested, plenty of time to work out the asset's and future programs that we and the EU need to be working together in.
    Citizens rights should be a no brainier with a equal reciprocal deals including spouses and children joining loved ones whether they in the EU or UK.
    Also not an easy situation with laws but imo if your living in the UK the you abide with UK law and same with living in the EU with ECJ law ruling.

    Quote Originally Posted by davevietnam View Post
    Concerning Northern Ireland and Brexit why is it such a big problem to overcome, obviously you will have an open border between the UK and the EU but Ireland has a whole is an island so surely if all goods and people from that Island where treated at the first port of entry as coming from the EU till proved otherwise is it then really such a big problem.

    It may well be an inconvenience for goods and people from NI but thats far better than what an internal border would cause, I ask as I genuinely do not know or see it as such a big problem, what am I missing, what are the main problems that could be caused by lets say doing nothing.
    Ireland is a big issue for both sides obviously.

    Also not many people realize how much goods actually come through mainland Europe into the UK and then straight through onto Ireland and vice versa. As it's cheaper and quicker than using ferries from mainland Europe to Ireland.

    Very tricky situation.
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