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Thread: Shooting in Vegas

  1. #781  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Why would I agree that the Middle East was a 'horrific place' in the 80's and 90's?
    ..
    Last edited by mcdiggerman; 11-10-17 at 12:43. Reason: It's not worth it
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdiggerman View Post
    Sorry, I shouldn't bite but just to hopefully close this off.

    He said that some dictators in the middle east used gas weapons to kill civilians...you said "Stop listening to propaganda"

    Whilst what he's saying in the rest of the thread is largely nonsense. He is correct with that statement. It is fact...not propaganda...and a fact is a fact as you say

    Anything else you want to ramble on about is fine. But as eLoader and myself have said - that one bit is fact

    But anyway - if you want try and argue about other stuff then cool.....I'll leave it there having stated the facts above
    Which Dictators?

    Who did they use them on?

    When?

    The poster was suggesting that we intervened in these countries to save the civilians from the evil leaders.

    Context is key. Your statement of 'facts' doesn't have any.

    So again, which dictators did we depose as a direct result of them launching chemical attacks on civilians?

    Oh and by the way, my best friend in school was from the middle east, his dad and other family members still lived there, he had a very different view to the news on the BBC. I went to school with him between 1982 and 1989.

    All this bombs of freedom rubbish is as sick as the guns of liberty stuff the poster is trying to argue in my opinion. We intervened in the middle east for one reason and one reason alone...resources.
    Last edited by rhoscoch; 11-10-17 at 12:48.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Which Dictators?

    Who did they use them on?

    When?

    The poster was suggesting that we intervened in these countries to save the civilians from the evil leaders.

    Context is key. Your statement of 'facts' doesn't have any.

    So again, which dictators did we depose as a direct result of them launching chemical attacks on civilians?

    Oh and by the way, my best friend in school was from the middle east, his dad and other family members still lived there, he had a very different view to the news on the BBC. I went to school with him between 1982 and 1989.
    Was he Kurdish? Your friend liked it there - I know many whose families were treated horrifically, the BBC didn't tell me that - they did

    Anyways - Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on civilians in the 80's - that is the only fact I'm presenting

    I'm truly going to leave it there now. If you don't believe the above then it is like discussing religion with a Scientologist you can present as much as possible but you'll never win them over.

    Back to Vegas, and gun control
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdiggerman View Post
    Was he Kurdish? Your friend liked it there - I know many whose families were treated horrifically, the BBC didn't tell me that - they did

    Anyways - Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on civilians in the 80's - that is the fact.

    I'm going to leave it there if you don't believe it as like discussing religion with a Scientologist you can present as much as possible but you'll never win them over.
    Who said I didn't believe it?

    As I understand it he did indeed gas the Kurds. The circumstances may not have been exactly verified, I think they call it 'fog of war' when things are not always clearly ascertained in battlefield situations. However at that time he was our ally anyway, we were supporting him in a war against Iran (or at least the US was 'covertly'). The gassing happened during this war. Had he just gassed Iranian troops we would have been fine with it. Saddam however was crafty so could have used this screen to brazenly attack his Kurdish detractors.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle1148.htm

    So lets say he did and he meant to...why didn't we do anything at the time?

    What about the other countries that have been decimated? When did they attack civilians with chemical weapons?
    Last edited by rhoscoch; 11-10-17 at 13:00.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    So why try to ARGUE that black is white?

    Facts are facts, it isn't my fault that our US based friend doesn't appear to be aware of them.
    Did I? Did you read my post or do you have the wrong end of the stick?

    Edit - Now I've caught up I think you are referring to another poster.
    Last edited by Eloader; 11-10-17 at 13:28.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdiggerman View Post
    Sorry, I shouldn't bite but just to hopefully close this off.

    He said that some dictators in the middle east used gas weapons to kill civilians...you said "Stop listening to propaganda"

    Whilst what he's saying in the rest of the thread is largely nonsense. He is correct with that statement. It is fact...not propaganda...and a fact is a fact as you say

    Anything else you want to ramble on about is fine. But as eLoader and myself have said - that one bit is fact

    But anyway - if you want try and argue about other stuff then cool.....I'll leave it there having stated the facts above
    Eh? Are you refrring to someone else here because the only thing I did was add a clarifier that Saddam admitted himself using gas on the Kurds!

    EDIT - Sorry, yes you are referring to the guy I replied to.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Eh? Are you refrring to someone else here because the only thing I did was add a clarifier that Saddam admitted himself using gas on the Kurds!

    EDIT - Sorry, yes you are referring to the guy I replied to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdiggerman View Post
    I thought I'd been drunk posting again. Can get a bit messy.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshelton View Post
    Not trying to lecture you, but it is clear to me that you do not understand the respect and morals placed in hunting. Unless everyone else in the world are total a holes while hunting and my friends are the only decent people left on the earth.
    Perhaps you should not just lump all hunting into one category because I would hardly class 'trophy hunting' as being filled with 'respect and morals', especially not when done on the African continent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    The success rate of suicide with a gun is near 77%.

    The success rate of a knife/cutting is 1.3%.

    It's not difficult to blame the instrument of suicide. It literally is fact that it's easier and more successful to kill yourself with a gun. *whispers* not to mention fatal shootings in home by children.
    Japan has a suicide rate that is almost double that of the US. They also have among the lowest gun ownership in the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Oh so subjecting them to further trauma is fine, silly me.

    I mean it's what they will have wanted and in no way will have aided in the radicalization of any of them or their families.

    Oohrah
    Yeah because that's what I said right. Anyway you actually seemed upset a few pages back that Gaddafi wasn't around. Assad must be a good friend of yours lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdiggerman View Post
    That's a bit like saying "To restrict the right to child pornography is a restriction on liberty itself"

    Libertyhas to be restricted - it's called Law
    Really mate? Child Pornography?
    Last edited by Megali-Idea; 11-10-17 at 17:24.
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  11. #791  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Japan has a suicide rate that is almost double that of the US. They also have among the lowest gun ownership in the world.
    This has literally nothing to do with what we're talking about.

    I'm showing you that the suicide rate with guns in the US is very, very high. Compared to other methods which is very very low.

    How does your statement mean anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    This has literally nothing to do with what we're talking about.

    I'm showing you that the suicide rate with guns in the US is very, very high. Compared to other methods which is very very low.

    How does your statement mean anything?
    Can you really not discern the point? I know you aren't stupid.

    People commit suicide with or without a gun.
    The suicide problem isn't going to go away with guns like some of you pretend.

    The fact that Japan needs almost no guns to have one of the highest suicide rates in the world is testimony to that.
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  13. #793  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Can you really not discern the point? I know you aren't stupid.

    People commit suicide with or without a gun.
    The suicide problem isn't going to go away with guns like some of you pretend.

    The fact that Japan needs almost no guns to have one of the highest suicide rates in the world is testimony to that.
    The Japanese treat and regard suicide a whole hell of a lot differently as a culture than we do.

    We don't live in Japan, we live in the US, where a lot of people kill themselves with guns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    The Japanese treat and regard suicide a whole hell of a lot differently as a culture than we do.

    We don't live in Japan, we live in the US, where a lot of people kill themselves with guns.
    This isn't samurai commiting seppuku and do you even realize what you just said?

    You excused an extremely high suicide rate by attributing it to their "culture" yet feel the need to correct American culture on guns.

    Do you not see the hypocrisy?
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  15. #795  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    This isn't samurai commiting seppuku and do you even realize what you just said?

    You excused an extremely high suicide rate by attributing it to their "culture" yet feel the need to correct American culture on guns.

    Do you not see the hypocrisy?
    No, you are not understanding correctly. My god, I'm not going to try and explain the difference to you.

    Both are bad, both are wrong. Only 1 country has tried to curb the 'culture' as you say by funding programs to help with suicide prevention, understanding, and changing the stereotypes.

    The US has literally done the opposite when it comes to guns. More, bigger, easier to get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    No, you are not understanding correctly. My god, I'm not going to try and explain the difference to you.

    Both are bad, both are wrong. Only 1 country has tried to curb the 'culture' as you say by funding programs to help with suicide prevention, understanding, and changing the stereotypes.

    The US has literally done the opposite when it comes to guns. More, bigger, easier to get.
    You have yet to establish any sort of evidence that guns actually increase suicides.

    Or is your only point that they are the most commonly used method of suicides in America.
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  17. #797  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    The success rate of suicide with a gun is near 77%.

    The success rate of a knife/cutting is 1.3%.

    It's not difficult to blame the instrument of suicide. It literally is fact that it's easier and more successful to kill yourself with a gun. *whispers* not to mention fatal shootings in home by children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Japan has a suicide rate that is almost double that of the US. They also have among the lowest gun ownership in the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    You have yet to establish any sort of evidence that guns actually increase suicides.

    Or is your only point that they are the most commonly used method of suicides in America.
    You literally started this bit by quoting my facts showing you this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    You have yet to establish any sort of evidence that guns actually increase suicides.

    Or is your only point that they are the most commonly used method of suicides in America.
    You're embarrassing yourself so relentlessly I have to believe you're trolling at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    You literally started this bit by quoting my facts showing you this.
    You misunderstand. I'm not debating that guns have a higher percentage of succeeding versus a knife.

    I'm asking what proof do you have that gun availability directly increases attempts. Because if they don't then the question is, what will the effect be by taking them away when it's quite easy to commit suicide any number of ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    You're embarrassing yourself so relentlessly I have to believe you're trolling at this point.
    Then why do you even post? You add nothing but insults so if I'm "trolling" why don't you just go back to your socialist websites.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    You misunderstand. I'm not debating that guns have a higher percentage of succeeding versus a knife.

    I'm asking what proof do you have that gun availability directly increases attempts. Because if they don't then the question is, what will the effect be by taking them away when it's quite easy to commit suicide any number of ways.



    Then why do you even post? You add nothing but insults so if I'm "trolling" why don't you just go back to your socialist websites.
    Although, suicide by gun is quick, easy and can be done in private. So those people who even have a fleeting desire to kiii themselves a bullet to the brain. Other methods are impossible to complete (auto strangulation with hands only), requires a lot of prep time (travel time) or due to the prolonged nature. In these cases the individuals may rethink the situation or is convinced life is worth living. A gun has a degree of permanence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul143 View Post
    Although, suicide by gun is quick, easy and can be done in private. So those people who even have a fleeting desire to kiii themselves a bullet to the brain. Other methods are impossible to complete (auto strangulation with hands only), requires a lot of prep time (travel time) or due to the prolonged nature. In these cases the individuals may rethink the situation or is convinced life is worth living. A gun has a degree of permanence.
    Hanging is still the dominate form of hanging in most countries. Australia's suicide rate hasn't been impacted terribly since they implemented their restrictive gun laws and actually has been climbing the last few years.

    I agree with most of what you said actually, but blaming guns for suicide's is just ignoring the bigger societal issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Hanging is still the dominate form of hanging in most countries. Australia's suicide rate hasn't been impacted terribly since they implemented their restrictive gun laws and actually has been climbing the last few years.

    I agree with most of what you said actually, but blaming guns for suicide's is just ignoring the bigger societal issue.
    Can't argue with that.


    A person truly determined on suicide will always find a way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Can't argue with that.


    A person truly determined on suicide will always find a way.
    However, a lot of suicides are not 100%, a gun makes it easier for someone who is in a bad way to kill them selves when they are not sure whether it’s the thing they actually want to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    However, a lot of suicides are not 100%, a gun makes it easier for someone who is in a bad way to kill them selves when they are not sure whether it’s the thing they actually want to do.
    Well sure. But the same can be said for an overdose of medication, or any of several other ways. Coroners usually find cause as 'While the balance of the mind was disturbed' or similar. And many gun attempts fail, too… resulting in injury, not death.

    But yes, in general terms a firearm is arguably the quickest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    You misunderstand. I'm not debating that guns have a higher percentage of succeeding versus a knife.

    I'm asking what proof do you have that gun availability directly increases attempts. Because if they don't then the question is, what will the effect be by taking them away when it's quite easy to commit suicide any number of ways.



    Then why do you even post? You add nothing but insults so if I'm "trolling" why don't you just go back to your socialist websites.
    I'm not nor have I said that guns increase suicide attempts. I've only said and maintained that access to guns increase the success rate of suicides. The former would be like saying 'having more bottled water increases suicide.' No one would ever say that. It's nonsensical.

    But access to guns when someone is attempting suicide increases the likelihood of them succeeding. This is proven fact.
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    Guys, go learn a little about suicides before you keep going. Most suicides are calls for help. In most circumstances, the person does not truly and completely want to die. So when people OD on meds, slit their wrists, etc, there are ways to reverse/save the person from what they've done. Can't go back from a gun shot to the head.

    Hence, access to guns increases the success of a suicide attempt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    Guys, go learn a little about suicides before you keep going. Most suicides are calls for help. In most circumstances, the person does not truly and completely want to die. So when people OD on meds, slit their wrists, etc, there are ways to reverse/save the person from what they've done. Can't go back from a gun shot to the head.

    Hence, access to guns increases the success of a suicide attempt.
    Yeah. Practice makes perfect. Feel free to use your guns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megali-Idea View Post
    Japan has a suicide rate that is almost double that of the US. They also have among the lowest gun ownership in the world.
    Japan’s problems are completely different. Just because another country has problems that stem from different causes doesn’t mean you can deflect away from the problems your country has. Suicide is easier with access to guns and Just because people commit suicide in different ways doesn’t mean that you can dispute this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    Japanís problems are completely different. Just because another country has problems that stem from different causes doesnít mean you can deflect away from the problems your country has. Suicide is easier with access to guns and Just because people commit suicide in different ways doesnít mean that you can dispute this.
    I think that's the point. Despite not having guns they still have a large number of suicides. Hence guns do not automatically mean more suicides. ( I think that's the argument you are trying to make yes?)
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    NRA now opposing the proposed bump stock legislation. Murdering scum the lot of them.
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