Notices
Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 48

Thread: Our spine compared to our rivals, it's not good enough is it?

  1. #1 Default Our spine compared to our rivals, it's not good enough is it? 
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    It may come as a knee jerking thread but on a serious note City, United, Chelsea and Spurs have a better GK, CB, CM and ST than us. All of the positions require quality individuals and leaders I'm disappointed that Klopp hasn't addressed these areas with better players tbh our recruitment under FSG and the managers we've had under them has been average to below par imo.

    I think Arsenal are on level with us which is why I didn't mention them. But look at the other 4, all have better GK's except maybe Ederson (early to judge) easily better CB's, better midfielders, I'd say Coutinho and Mane would get into their teams and better goalscoring strikers. Unless we improve on those key areas we'll always struggle imo.

    Let's compare:

    Us:
    Mignolet
    Matip
    Henderson
    Coutinho
    Mane
    Firmino

    City:
    Ederson
    Kompany
    Fernandinho
    Silva
    De Brunye
    Aguero

    United:
    De Gea
    Bailly
    Matic
    Pogba
    Mkhitaryan
    Lukaku

    Chelsea:
    Courtois
    Luiz
    Azplicueta
    Kante
    Hazard
    Costa before (Morata now)

    Spurs:
    Lloris
    Alderweireld
    Dembele
    Eriksen
    Alli
    Kane
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  2. #2  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    122,042
    It depends on what you define as spine, but if you define it right through the middle ours is crap.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  3. #3  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    It depends on what you define as spine, but if you define it right through the middle ours is crap.
    I've picked out key players from key positions and yes spine comes through the middle. Just compare it better individuals all around except Coutinho and Mane.
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  4. #4  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    122,042
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    I've picked out key players from key positions and yes spine comes through the middle. Just compare it better individuals all around except Coutinho and Mane.
    I wouldn't count someone like Mane as a spine then. It would be a goalkeeper, centreback(s), central midfielder and striker. We stink in all of those areas.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  5. #5  
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,983
    Hasn't been no where near good enough since we lost Reina Carra Mascherano Alonso Gerrard & Torres.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  6. #6  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    I wouldn't count someone like Mane as a spine then. It would be a goalkeeper, centreback(s), central midfielder and striker. We stink in all of those areas.
    No I know I added two other areas because every team has a playmaker/creator/winger. Overall though its really bad, can't believe we've done nothing to improve it.
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  7. #7  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    122,042
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    No I know I added two other areas because every team has a playmaker/creator/winger. Overall though its really bad, can't believe we've done nothing to improve it.
    The general problem with our spine is that they're not reliable players. In any given game any one of those players is likely to produce a stinker and often more than one.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  8. #8  
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,489
    Ofcourse it isn't good enough. We are unbalanced. And it shows.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  9. #9  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    Quote Originally Posted by danm77 View Post
    Ofcourse it isn't good enough. We are unbalanced. And it shows.
    We've had enough time to sort it.
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  10. #10  
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    The general problem with our spine is that they're not reliable players. In any given game any one of those players is likely to produce a stinker and often more than one.
    This is a good point. Good spines don't have to be amazing players throughout, but it works if they are a 7 each game. All of our spine either are a 9 or a 5, and the 9's don't come often enough.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  11. #11  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Gogh View Post
    This is a good point. Good spines don't have to be amazing players throughout, but it works if they are a 7 each game. All of our spine either are a 9 or a 5, and the 9's don't come often enough.
    Lack of inspirational leaders who are influential that can change a game is an issue though. We don't have winners its that simple! Klopp should've ripped the heart of first 11 and rebuild.
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  12. #12  
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    31,455
    It's not knee-jerking at all, TR .. it is a simple fact .. and it is borne out by how many posters on here have been clamouring (for the most part) for the same positions to be strengthened, transfer window after transfer window, season after season, for all too long now.

    In order of people's wishes for positions to be filled, I would say it goes like this:

    No1: Centre Back
    No2: Centre Mid
    No3: Goalkeeper
    No4: Striker

    Then you have other positions like fullback, attacking mids, wingers etc, which - ironically - have all been addressed (even though our FB's still are somewhat questionable and the joy out on some).

    Essentially, our complete spine has been our biggest problem for the longest time now .. and still is. Keita will address the one issue next summer, but we are still waiting for the others to be addressed adequately. As you said, all our rivals have a better keeper, better CB's, better CM's and better strikers.

    When you look at it that way, it is a wonder that we are even competing.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  13. #13  
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    264
    We also need at least just one player that we can 100% count on to win a game. A Gerrard, Torres, Suarez etc. Or at least a player we can rely on to not lose a game.

    At the moment, the closest to that we have is Coutinho, and he's just not on that level yet.

    edit: sorry just seen your post Riedle.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  14. #14  
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    31,455
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    Lack of inspirational leaders who are influential that can change a game is an issue though. We don't have winners its that simple! Klopp should've ripped the heart of first 11 and rebuild.
    Yes, agree with this too .. and I guess the fact that the players we have in many of those key positions are not good enough, in a way also explains our lack of leadership too. If you look at the great leaders of teams (and even if not captains, other players who show leadership qualities), they tend to be quality players.

    Not sure if this particular equation would stand up in a court of law but I'll throw it into the mix anyway:

    Substandard footballers = substandard leaders.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  15. #15  
    Larissa Karius is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    36,472
    The spine usually consists of four players. Ours are...


    Mignolet - Matip - Henderson - Firmino


    Simply, not good enough.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  16. #16  
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    8,081
    I would say Migs, Matip, Hendo and Firmino are our true spine.

    Migs Iíve no problem with. Heís far better than Karius thatís for sure.

    Matip is overrated. Heís composed but heís no Japp Stam! Just above average.

    Hendo... if Iím honest Iíll just end up getting banned (again) so letís just say heís Surely Had Inough Tries... and yes thatís spelt right

    Firmino isnít a striker. End of
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  17. #17  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    It's not knee-jerking at all, TR .. it is a simple fact .. and it is borne out by how many posters on here have been clamouring (for the most part) for the same positions to be strengthened, transfer window after transfer window, season after season, for all too long now.

    In order of people's wishes for positions to be filled, I would say it goes like this:

    No1: Centre Back
    No2: Centre Mid
    No3: Goalkeeper
    No4: Striker

    Then you have other positions like fullback, attacking mids, wingers etc, which - ironically - have all been addressed (even though our FB's still are somewhat questionable and the joy out on some).

    Essentially, our complete spine has been our biggest problem for the longest time now .. and still is. Keita will address the one issue next summer, but we are still waiting for the others to be addressed adequately. As you said, all our rivals have a better keeper, better CB's, better CM's and better strikers.

    When you look at it that way, it is a wonder that we are even competing.
    May sound harsh but we love to get carried away as fans, I think we did well last season slightly overachieved but when you get yourself into a position like that you need to take full advantage. I hate comparing and I was slated for comparing Pochettino's work at Spurs but just look at what his built in 3 years. You have to give him credit where its due. For the second time in 7 years we've failed to take advantage of a positive situation.
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  18. #18  
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,489
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    We've had enough time to sort it.
    Agree. We have the same problems now as we have had for years.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  19. #19  
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,239
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    I've picked out key players from key positions and yes spine comes through the middle. Just compare it better individuals all around except Coutinho and Mane.
    Although to be honest i wouldnt put Mane and Coutinho in as being our spine. The spine as i see it is GK/CB(s)/DMF/Main striker

    you could argue that the last position rotates for us so it could be Mane but certainly our first 3/4 positions are a good deal poorer. Our GK is def inferior to Spurs/Manure and Chelsea (as well as Arsenal) and i think jury is out on Ederson at City. Our CBs are probably inferior but it hinges on the protection we give them which is ZERO compared with City/Chelsea/spurs and Utd. So i think to call our CBs crap is going a bit far as most would be if offered no protection.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  20. #20  
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    814
    We havenít had an even remotely decent spine since Benitez left.

    Thatís a long time to go without resolving the problems in key areas. Itís astonishing how so many managers since have just ignored it really.

    All under the watch of FSG I might add.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  21. #21  
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    31,455
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    May sound harsh but we love to get carried away as fans, I think we did well last season slightly overachieved but when you get yourself into a position like that you need to take full advantage. I hate comparing and I was slated for comparing Pochettino's work at Spurs but just look at what his built in 3 years. You have to give him credit where its due. For the second time in 7 years we've failed to take advantage of a positive situation.
    Yes, unfortunately it is becoming increasingly difficult to argue against what you are saying here.

    I have been puzzled about a lot of things in my life with respect to LFC, but two things occupy top positions with regard to my complete bemusement:

    1. Roy Hodgson being hired as manager to replace Rafa
    2. Klopp going into this season without buying a CB

    That is how gobsmacked I am that we placed such an emphasis on VVD to the exclusion of all other CB's playing football in the entire world this summer.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  22. #22  
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,918
    I imagine When Kieta comes and possibly Van Dijk then that improves our spine dramatically but we don't have them so it pointless even mentioning it. ( i've just told myself off there )

    I do have a massive issue with the lack of leadership at the moment, someone , as I have mentioned many times before, who can take the game by the scruff of the neck when things aren't going for us. I want to see someone pointing , screaming , pulling someone into position , shouting at them for not tracking back, you know like a captain is supposed to. I'm not meaning this as a dig at Henderson as such but the lack of players capable of doing it.

    Too many times we see faces like thunder saying ' oh here we go again" without actually doing anything about it . Talk, scream, reorganize lift your fellow player and regroup as we have the quality to get back into any game but of late we are forgetting this. It seems like the players are just looking for that said person but realizing there is no one to lift them.... just do it yourself then, stop waiting for instructions from the touch line ffs.

    No doubt we will spank Man U and all will be forgotten, papering over the cracks.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  23. #23  
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,239
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    May sound harsh but we love to get carried away as fans, I think we did well last season slightly overachieved but when you get yourself into a position like that you need to take full advantage. I hate comparing and I was slated for comparing Pochettino's work at Spurs but just look at what his built in 3 years. You have to give him credit where its due. For the second time in 7 years we've failed to take advantage of a positive situation.
    Fergie always said and i agree with him, that you invest in players after success. So we should have rebuilt quite a lot this last summer instead of just buying a few players most of whom were attackers.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  24. #24  
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    16,765
    The captain is Jordan Henderson, enough said
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  25. #25  
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,239
    Quote Originally Posted by mymagaveurmaadigonthenose View Post
    I imagine When Kieta comes and possibly Van Dijk then that improves our spine dramatically but we don't have them so it pointless even mentioning it. ( i've just told myself off there )

    I do have a massive issue with the lack of leadership at the moment, someone , as I have mentioned many times before, who can take the game by the scruff of the neck when things aren't going for us. I want to see someone pointing , screaming , pulling someone into position , shouting at them for not tracking back, you know like a captain is supposed to. I'm not meaning this as a dig at Henderson as such but the lack of players capable of doing it.

    Too many times we see faces like thunder saying ' oh here we go again" without actually doing anything about it . Talk, scream, reorganize lift your fellow player and regroup as we have the quality to get back into any game but of late we are forgetting this. It seems like the players are just looking for that said person but realizing there is no one to lift them.... just do it yourself then, stop waiting for instructions from the touch line ffs.

    No doubt we will spank Man U and all will be forgotten, papering over the cracks.
    He aint going to improve the lack of protection for back 4. He's just another box to box mf like, say, a Gerrard. What we need is a Mascherano type player. Totally agree on lack of leadership particularly at the back..we have a defence of Bambis.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  26. #26  
    TheRiedle is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    36,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    I would say Migs, Matip, Hendo and Firmino are our true spine.

    Migs I’ve no problem with. He’s far better than Karius that’s for sure.

    Matip is overrated. He’s composed but he’s no Japp Stam! Just above average.

    Hendo... if I’m honest I’ll just end up getting banned (again) so let’s just say he’s Surely Had Inough Tries... and yes that’s spelt right

    Firmino isn’t a striker. End of
    Not good enough when you compare it to our rivals.
    ?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  27. #27  
    TheKnucklesOfAgger is online now Academy prospect
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    10,012
    Mignolet, Matip, Henderson, no proper recognised striker in the mould of Kane or Lukaku.

    Itís pretty dire. There are times they get by due to the outstanding performances of those around them, but by and large itís a core that wouldnít look out of place in mid table sides if weíre being perfectly objective.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  28. #28  
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    8,081
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiedle View Post
    Not good enough when you compare it to our rivals.
    Not good enough when you compare it to the bottom feeders either. Itís not like Hendo would improve Crystal Palaceís midfield
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  29. #29  
    NY Mike is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    31,668
    Our team is spineless.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  30. #30  
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    It depends on what you define as spine, but if you define it right through the middle ours is crap.
    So most fans that pay to watch the team be it on sky or at the ground can see plain as day that the spine of the team is crap and has been for years but the people that get paid millions cannot see a problem or cant fix the problems that are clear to us fans,its crazy and thats why we're looking at midtable again,so frustrating because all we can do is sit back and watch the same players year in year out
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   



Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •