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Thread: Norway - congratulations

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    It all gets very chicken egg though. It's hard to get the funding without the support, it's hard to get the support without the funding.
    This is also true. However if you look at ladies football everything is cheap, its like mens football in the 70's. Low ticket prices (walk in on the day), wages and transfer fees are low etc. But you just don't get the crowds and that's to do with the entertainment. I'm not begrudging them being paid the same but they are right now being paid the same but actually are not equal to the mens game which makes a slight mockery of equality.

    Other sports I think they fully deserve it, tennis golf etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defo-skitso View Post
    This is also true. However if you look at ladies football everything is cheap, its like mens football in the 70's. Low ticket prices (walk in on the day), wages and transfer fees are low etc. But you just don't get the crowds and that's to do with the entertainment. I'm not begrudging them being paid the same but they are right now being paid the same but actually are not equal to the mens game which makes a slight mockery of equality.

    Other sports I think they fully deserve it, tennis golf etc.
    In tennis though should the women not have to play 5 set matches as the men do if they get the same money.
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    Why are the women being paid the same anyway? Is women's football as much of a draw as the men's in Norway?

    If I was a woman I'd know it wasn't and find it patronizing that they were offering the same wages. I wouldn't want charity for the sake of feminism. Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by klopp in View Post
    In tennis though should the women not have to play 5 set matches as the men do if they get the same money.
    The men play more tennis and provide more entertainment, value for money for the price you've paid to watch the match.

    They work harder and deserve to get paid more. Nothing sexist about that it's just facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by klopp in View Post
    In tennis though should the women not have to play 5 set matches as the men do if they get the same money.
    interesting point actually. hmmmm, its tricky cause I guess there is a physical power / stamina difference (or am I being sexist now?)
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    Not only is it intense work, it's devoting your whole life to that work. And since the "industry" of football makes billions, including all the owners and executives, then it makes sense that football players should earn a big cut of that money. Yet some fans berate players for the amounts they earn as if the players created this system, or perpetuate it.

    It's also work that only lasts until you get seriously injured, or too old, or lose form and are no longer wanted. Every time a player pulls on a national shirt, they're risking their whole career. And lots of money is being made off that risk - off that international game. And yet there are people who think they should play for their country for free?

    It's a bit like asking a building contractor to build a house for free since it's for a government official.
    Nonsense, how many players have had their careers ended on duty for their countries Iím betting very few.

    They earn enough, playing for ones country should be an honour
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Nonsense, how many players have had their careers ended on duty for their countries Iím betting very few.

    They earn enough, playing for ones country should be an honour
    Nobody in an England shirt sees it as an honour. They may say it but they don't.

    None of them play to the level they play in the prem league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defo-skitso View Post
    This is also true. However if you look at ladies football everything is cheap, its like mens football in the 70's. Low ticket prices (walk in on the day), wages and transfer fees are low etc. But you just don't get the crowds and that's to do with the entertainment. I'm not begrudging them being paid the same but they are right now being paid the same but actually are not equal to the mens game which makes a slight mockery of equality.

    Other sports I think they fully deserve it, tennis golf (or football or any sport etc.)
    Why should they get the same in tennis or golf (or any sport if the standards and interest is lower)?

    For the sake of equality they should merge all the players together men and women into one league and then you get in tennis the highest woman being ranked about 500th in the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...Sexes_(tennis)
    1998: Karsten Braasch vs. the Williams sisters[edit]
    Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[51] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager".[52][51] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[53] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two beers. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[54] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun".[55] Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[51]

    In games like snooker and golf for sure they could merge as it's not so physical, and in any sport really they could merge.

    Why can't the disabled sports be equal pay as well? Also as someone mentioned the under 15's should be on 100k/week in UK (maybe even the under 12's)

    The claim of them training just as hard as the men, well if you get a rubbish Sunday league man to train as hard as the PL players, I still think he should be paid his low salary (if he gets paid at all). Furthermore if a guy happens to be world class at his sport with less training, he still deserves to be paid the high wages because of his output. Like in any other industry, it's judged on what skills and standards the person produces etc.

    The same is true the other way round as well:
    If you find a sport or activity that women generally excel more than men, it's hard to give examples which won't offend people (so this is a random, non researched, not necessarily true example), but let's say they are generally in a different league to men in a competition which involves multi-tasking and on average they are way above the men. THey have their own leagues and have a big following watching this multi-tasking competition, and gradually they produce world class performers, (the income and salaries for the women starts to rise to good heights) then the men try their hand and start their own league which isn't at the same standard. I would say that the men have no right to ask for the same salaries as the women, (unless obviously the audiences are interested in watching men floundering around etc)
    Last edited by raf_the_laf; 8-10-17 at 22:48.
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  9. #39  
    Euro-77-78-81-84-05 is offline Ask him if the match is on TV
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    Quote Originally Posted by klopp in View Post
    In tennis though should the women not have to play 5 set matches as the men do if they get the same money.
    Men only play 5 sets in the Grand Slams though, and I may be wrong, but is the money not the same in Grand Slams. The other tournaments it is different, but both play 3 sets maximum.

    It is strange the Grand Slams, men play 3 minimum, the women play 3 maximum. Even ignoring pay, why can they not play the same number. Equality, but saying they can't play the same, that's a bit sexist in itself.

    They are playing other women, so why not play the same. It's the same for both players. It's not like they are getting some qualifier woman who's never played a Grand slam before and expecting her to face a Federer and Nadal over five sets, which men struggle with. So if men are supposedly physically stronger why does it matter if women play five sets against other women.

    You don't get women's football played as 60 minute matches, they play 90 minutes like men as they are playing other women's teams. They don't say oh woman are not physically stronger let's make them play less as they are not as psychically strong as men's teams that run out of energy playing against Barcelona or Real Madrid, like the men in tennis run out of energy against Federer and Nadal.

    Grand Slam wildcards get 5 set games against Federer and Nadal and can't cope most of the time, just like non professional clubs get CL clubs in FA Cup and can't cope a 90 minute game.

    They don't reduce the number of sets if Federer and Nadal get a rookie player, just like football is not reduced if non league get top tier. So why can women not play the same sets when it's other women they face. Federer v 18 year old wildcard over 5 sets, Willams sisters over 3 sets. The gulf in class is bigger in the men's game.

    Football Sutton v Arsenal 90 minutes. They don't reduce women's football to 60 minutes as the two teams top of the league playing each other is less a gulf in class then Sutton v Arsenal.

    So why not have the women's Grand Slams a best of five sets.
    YNWA
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    Thread of the year . Right here .


    Bump.

    Next we'll discussing tennis pay . And the complete lack of interest in that sport when the girls go on for an hour to hit the bouncy about for a bit
    Last edited by redhoops; 10-10-17 at 00:40.
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    I think i raised a good point about 5 sets for women in tennis. I think most people agree it should happen for equal money.

    What do women on the forum think ?
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    TheSoundLady is offline Optimistic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaros View Post
    Why are the women being paid the same anyway? Is women's football as much of a draw as the men's in Norway?

    If I was a woman I'd know it wasn't and find it patronizing that they were offering the same wages. I wouldn't want charity for the sake of feminism. Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
    In terms of how much money the women's game makes, you have a point.

    However, the men's team in Norway often does not qualify for major tournaments. Whereas the women's team has won three of them (World Cup, 2 Euros) and is often challenging in the latter stages. So in terms of achievements and success, Norway's women are far ahead of the men. Perhaps Norway values success and prestige over the number of $$$ raked in. Or at least perhaps that is a factor.

    However I would imagine the main factor is simply progressive mindsets or fairness. Because two people doing the same job, taking the same risks, and representing their country, why not pay them the same. Capitalism might dictate otherwise, but perhaps Norway wisely does not worship capitalism to the same degree as some of our nations do.
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    TheSoundLady is offline Optimistic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Nonsense, how many players have had their careers ended on duty for their countries I’m betting very few.

    They earn enough, playing for ones country should be an honour
    So then if an electrician or builder or plumber or architect is asked to do work for the government, they should do it for free, because doing free work for one's country should be an honour.
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    TheKnucklesOfAgger is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by klopp in View Post
    I think i raised a good point about 5 sets for women in tennis. I think most people agree it should happen for equal money.

    What do women on the forum think ?
    Most definitely. That one actually annoys me, there's no reason for equal pay in that instance because at most a women's match is 3 sets whereas that's the minimum men will play.
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    TheSoundLady is offline Optimistic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKnucklesOfAgger View Post
    Most definitely. That one actually annoys me, there's no reason for equal pay in that instance because at most a women's match is 3 sets whereas that's the minimum men will play.
    You're annoyed that female tennis players earn the same as men?

    Imagine how women must feel knowing that for the same jobs at the same level with the same education, they will earn 20% less than men. Imagine how non-whites must feel knowing that for the same jobs at the same level with the same education, they will earn 20% less than white people.

    With such outlandish and sickening injustices throughout our society in terms of salary, I'm surprised that tennis-payment gender-equality annoys anyone really.
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    So then if an electrician or builder or plumber or architect is asked to do work for the government, they should do it for free, because doing free work for one's country should be an honour.
    You canít compare a builder or a plumber to a multi millionaire footballer

    Well you can but you canít really
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKnucklesOfAgger View Post
    Most definitely. That one actually annoys me, there's no reason for equal pay in that instance because at most a women's match is 3 sets whereas that's the minimum men will play.
    So the hourly rate for women is more which of course is sexist against men
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    kas74 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    You can’t compare a builder or a plumber to a multi millionaire footballer

    Well you can but you can’t really
    By the time the relevant government department decided to pay up most people would be out of business anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kas74 View Post
    By the time the relevant government department pays up most people would be out of business anyway.
    Your cynicism is becoming legendary

    I just read all the England players donate their match fees to charity
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Your cynicism is becoming legendary

    I just read all the England players donate their match fees to charity
    I used to work for our council; 'Hopefully they'll die before we have to cough up' was how it usually worked when it came to settling debts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raf_the_laf View Post
    Why should they get the same in tennis or golf (or any sport if the standards and interest is lower)?

    For the sake of equality they should merge all the players together men and women into one league and then you get in tennis the highest woman being ranked about 500th in the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...Sexes_(tennis)
    1998: Karsten Braasch vs. the Williams sisters[edit]
    Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[51] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager".[52][51] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[53] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two beers. He first took on Serena and after leading 5Ė0, beat her 6Ė1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6Ė2.[54] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun".[55] Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[51]

    In games like snooker and golf for sure they could merge as it's not so physical, and in any sport really they could merge.

    Why can't the disabled sports be equal pay as well? Also as someone mentioned the under 15's should be on 100k/week in UK (maybe even the under 12's)

    The claim of them training just as hard as the men, well if you get a rubbish Sunday league man to train as hard as the PL players, I still think he should be paid his low salary (if he gets paid at all). Furthermore if a guy happens to be world class at his sport with less training, he still deserves to be paid the high wages because of his output. Like in any other industry, it's judged on what skills and standards the person produces etc.

    The same is true the other way round as well:
    If you find a sport or activity that women generally excel more than men, it's hard to give examples which won't offend people (so this is a random, non researched, not necessarily true example), but let's say they are generally in a different league to men in a competition which involves multi-tasking and on average they are way above the men. THey have their own leagues and have a big following watching this multi-tasking competition, and gradually they produce world class performers, (the income and salaries for the women starts to rise to good heights) then the men try their hand and start their own league which isn't at the same standard. I would say that the men have no right to ask for the same salaries as the women, (unless obviously the audiences are interested in watching men floundering around etc)
    Its not about whether a man can beat a woman, I think you are referring to a different point with the above. Its more to do with entertainment and quite frankly woman's tennis is right up there if not better actually than the mens game.

    Its pretty boring seeing a bloke serve with all his almighty power for his opponent to not return the ball. Anyway that's why I think Tennis should be equal. Football is different
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by kas74 View Post
    I used to work for our council; 'Hopefully they'll die before we have to cough up' was how it usually worked when it came to settling debts.
    dont look back in anger.
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  23. #53  
    MiraclesArePossible is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    You can’t compare a builder or a plumber to a multi millionaire footballer

    Well you can but you can’t really
    You can in that they're both forms of employment, in which equal pay has an equally valid reason to be discussed.
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  24. #54  
    MiraclesArePossible is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Nonsense, how many players have had their careers ended on duty for their countries I’m betting very few.

    They earn enough, playing for ones country should be an honour
    The men earn enough. The women don't.
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    MiraclesArePossible is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defo-skitso View Post
    This is also true. However if you look at ladies football everything is cheap, its like mens football in the 70's. Low ticket prices (walk in on the day), wages and transfer fees are low etc. But you just don't get the crowds and that's to do with the entertainment. I'm not begrudging them being paid the same but they are right now being paid the same but actually are not equal to the mens game which makes a slight mockery of equality.

    Other sports I think they fully deserve it, tennis golf etc.
    Not getting the crowds isn't in my opinion a good enough reason to not pay the same. The Norwegian FA have arrived at the reasonable conclusion that playing for one's country, male or female, constitutes the same job, and for that they're paying equally. Good on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    Not getting the crowds isn't in my opinion a good enough reason to not pay the same. The Norwegian FA have arrived at the reasonable conclusion that playing for one's country, male or female, constitutes the same job, and for that they're paying equally. Good on them.
    Although you are deluding yourself that it is the same job. It isn't.

    They are actually different jobs.

    If the Norway Women's football team was entered into the Men's competition at the next World Cup, then your argument would apply. However, they don't and will not.

    As long as the Women continue to play against other Women in the Women's competition, they are certainly not doing the same job.

    The decision is not based on logic or reason, simply ideology and it has made a mockery of the Norwegian Men's team.
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  27. #57  
    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    The men earn enough. The women don't.
    But how do you evaluate that ?
    dont look back in anger.
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  28. #58  
    MiraclesArePossible is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    But how do you evaluate that ?
    The fact that you're obviously saying that they earn enough because the men are by and large millionaires. Which isn't a counterargument to treating the women equally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    Not getting the crowds isn't in my opinion a good enough reason to not pay the same. The Norwegian FA have arrived at the reasonable conclusion that playing for one's country, male or female, constitutes the same job, and for that they're paying equally. Good on them.
    I'm sorry but that really doesn't make any sense. So if the womans game is absolutely dire, the quality is very poor and nobody attends matches its irrelevant?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defo-skitso View Post
    I'm sorry but that really doesn't make any sense. So if the womans game is absolutely dire, the quality is very poor and nobody attends matches its irrelevant?
    You cannot reason with someone who puts feelings and emotions above sound logic.

    Some have an incessant need to virtue signal.
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