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Thread: Jurgen Klopp - Episode IV

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    He's got to make the most of the opportunity to strengthen in January, for sure.
    I hope and pray he does so. The second half of the season is extremely important in many ways. We have to improve our points to game ratio significantly to make-up the deficit we have already created in the league to have any chance of even making it into the top 4. In CL, we are likely to face better opponents in the knock-out stage and beyond. Our only realistic chance at winning a trophy lies in the FA Cup and we need to do well in that competition. We cannot do this with a leaky injury prone defense.

    We are likely to lose some players at the end of the season (Can and possibly Cout). Attracting top talent without CL football is likely to prove difficult and we need to do well in the league to get the kind of players we need to replace these players. January is key to all of this.
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    steviewonder87 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    I hope and pray he does so. The second half of the season is extremely important in many ways. We have to improve our points to game ratio significantly to make-up the deficit we have already created in the league to have any chance of even making it into the top 4. In CL, we are likely to face better opponents in the knock-out stage and beyond. Our only realistic chance at winning a trophy lies in the FA Cup and we need to do well in that competition. We cannot do this with a leaky injury prone defense.

    We are likely to lose some players at the end of the season (Can and possibly Cout). Attracting top talent without CL football is likely to prove difficult and we need to do well in the league to get the kind of players we need to replace these players. January is key to all of this.
    We're currently only 3 points off 4th, and 4 points off 3rd. We're hardly way off the pace yet, especially for a team that's supposedly in crisis, and we've played 2 of the strongest teams in the league away already. If this is us in terrible form then we surely have nothing to worry about...
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    Two things I don't understand with him

    1. Our defence.

    2. And why did he give Lovren and Mingolet new contracts.

    Still the man imo, just needs to invest in the defence.
    Hopefully he will fix the defence.
    But i think his idea of gung ho doesn't suit the English game, and i would like a little bit of a stoic approach to our tactics in some games.
    Migs and lovren? I really don't think it's important. Once he gets tired of them, and he finds suitable replacements they will be moved on even with new deals
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Only two things - wow

    Underestimated the opposition
    Underestimated the rebuild
    Underestimated the ability of the squad
    Underestimated the resources around him

    And enter into an arrangement with a failed plan - no defensive foundation
    When does he underestimate the opposition?
    Perhaps?
    If anything, I think that he overestimates the ability of his squad and his own ability to turn players like Lovern into Bobby Moore.
    Donít think he underestimates his resources (if your talking financial) but he is not prepared to buy for the sake of it.
    The whole defense issue seems to have been overestimation of their ability, probably based on their overall improvement last season. I think that he thought that this would continue and it hasnít.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Only two things - wow

    Underestimated the opposition
    Underestimated the rebuild
    Underestimated the ability of the squad
    Underestimated the resources around him

    And enter into an arrangement with a failed plan - no defensive foundation
    I think you will get old as a sour man
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    The worrying thing for me is that before weíd have the excuse that the reason we donít succeed is for 3 reasons:

    - Donít have a world class manager
    - No Champions League football
    - Canít pay high wages


    Well with Klopp and this season, two of those three things have been checked off the llist. (If people are still willing to consider Klopp world class or even significantly above average at the least). If we donít succeed whatís our excuse then? Do we fall back onto the wages argument again?

    Itís all a bit scary. I remember thinking all we had to do was get CL football and our problems would go away. That doesnt seem to be the case. :-(
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  7. #37  
    Mouldiogs is online now Wants a little line under his title
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuatreVingt16 View Post
    When does he underestimate the opposition?
    Perhaps?
    If anything, I think that he overestimates the ability of his squad and his own ability to turn players like Lovern into Bobby Moore.
    Don’t think he underestimates his resources (if your talking financial) but he is not prepared to buy for the sake of it.
    The whole defense issue seems to have been overestimation of their ability, probably based on their overall improvement last season. I think that he thought that this would continue and it hasn’t.
    That's more like it, he believes in some too much and thinks he can get more out of them than they are capable of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    We're currently only 3 points off 4th, and 4 points off 3rd. We're hardly way off the pace yet, especially for a team that's supposedly in crisis, and we've played 2 of the strongest teams in the league away already. If this is us in terrible form then we surely have nothing to worry about...
    That seems to be the case with us. When the perception is ‘meltdown! Meltdown! Shambles!!’ but you really look at the ‘facts’ and it’s not that bad.

    (I’m guilty of this too)
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  9. #39  
    Mouldiogs is online now Wants a little line under his title
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    I think you will get old as a sour man
    Get?
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuatreVingt16 View Post
    When does he underestimate the opposition?
    Perhaps?
    If anything, I think that he overestimates the ability of his squad and his own ability to turn players like Lovern into Bobby Moore.
    Donít think he underestimates his resources (if your talking financial) but he is not prepared to buy for the sake of it.
    The whole defense issue seems to have been overestimation of their ability, probably based on their overall improvement last season. I think that he thought that this would continue and it hasnít.
    People were complaining when rodgers bought a lot of deadwood, just for the sake of buying.
    And the same people will complain when klopp don't buy a lot of deadwood, just for the sake of buying
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  11. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Get?
    Even older
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    I think you will get old as a sour man
    You can only be sour if jealous - its not sour if its not good enough
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    steviewonder87 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Get?
    Think he passed that point long ago...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterPoolStark View Post
    That seems to be the case with us. When the perception is ‘meltdown! Meltdown! Shambles!!’ but you really look at the ‘facts’ and it’s not that bad.

    (I’m guilty of this too)
    Or maybe - some can see the damage done - whilst the naive still live in hope....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    You can only be sour if jealous - its not sour if its not good enough
    And you will keep on being what ever you are
    And of course you can be sour when jealousy is not involved
    Last edited by Anubis; 3-11-17 at 19:11.
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  16. #46  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    I see my few days off didn't coincide with an upturn in post quality in this thread...
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  17. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    I see my few days off didn't coincide with an upturn in post quality in this thread...
    Maybe now it will since you are back!
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    Or was it keep what you have because we were happy with them??? Klopp actually said he was happy with them and was also happy to offer them new contracts. This is what I don't understand. Anyone with a pair of eyes will tell you we should have better. He's had ample time and opportunity to strengthen these important positions in the team.

    I honestly didn't see the need to tie them down here on more lucrative long term contracts.

    he is a manager that improves players.

    mane has gone up two levels from his saints days
    lallana has reached new heights and is a big loss for us
    Moreno is a new player this season
    firmino has been very good up top in a new role
    sturridge finally seems to have found fitness (now for the form)
    gomez and trent have blossomed under him
    milner played really well for the most in a new role last season despite never playing there before

    even lovren and matip have generally looked the part when paired together. lovren has destroyed lukaku on multiple occasions and even aguero he has kept quiet.
    mignolet had a steady at best time towards the end of the year.

    klopp generally has a good track record in improving players so he showed lovren and mignolet some faith. however obviously klopp has his eyes on them as he did buy karius and and klavan and also wanted VVD. he seems to be easing karius in now too and recalled ward last year. I don't agree with migs at all but klopp obviously is not fully happy with him hence why karius was bought and pushing him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    I see my few days off didn't coincide with an upturn in post quality in this thread...
    oh dear, here comes my ban! I still cant believe you banned me last time especially after what else gets through here that was much worse in my time off!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Or maybe - some can see the damage done - whilst the naive still live in hope....
    Maybe but we do jump to conclusions at times. Chelsea/Arsenal could easily drop points for their next 2 games. So could Spurs and Utd whilst we win ours. That kinda just wipes out the bumps we’ve recently faced and puts us right in the mix.

    It may sound naive, wishful thinking etc.. but as LFC fans what do we have other than our hopes? Hope we sort ourselves out, hope results go our way.. an all that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    oh dear, here comes my ban! I still cant believe you banned me last time especially after what else gets through here that was much worse in my time off!
    Grasss, you just can’t help it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Only two things - wow

    Underestimated the opposition
    Underestimated the rebuild
    Underestimated the ability of the squad
    Underestimated the resources around him
    For the poster that coined the term "deadwood", to now post that Herr Klopp "underestimated the ability of the squad" and "underestimated the resources around him" is a real flop-flop. I mean, now you're saying the squad is much better than he thought it was and has more resources than he expected.

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  23. #53  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    oh dear, here comes my ban! I still cant believe you banned me last time especially after what else gets through here that was much worse in my time off!
    If you insist.

    I'll put in on my "to do " list....
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  24. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    oh dear, here comes my ban! I still cant believe you banned me last time especially after what else gets through here that was much worse in my time off!
    I find it interesting that i never got banned because of Poulsen
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  25. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    he is a manager that improves players.

    mane has gone up two levels from his saints days
    lallana has reached new heights and is a big loss for us
    Moreno is a new player this season
    firmino has been very good up top in a new role
    sturridge finally seems to have found fitness (now for the form)
    gomez and trent have blossomed under him
    milner played really well for the most in a new role last season despite never playing there before

    even lovren and matip have generally looked the part when paired together. lovren has destroyed lukaku on multiple occasions and even aguero he has kept quiet.
    mignolet had a steady at best time towards the end of the year.

    klopp generally has a good track record in improving players so he showed lovren and mignolet some faith. however obviously klopp has his eyes on them as he did buy karius and and klavan and also wanted VVD. he seems to be easing karius in now too and recalled ward last year. I don't agree with migs at all but klopp obviously is not fully happy with him hence why karius was bought and pushing him.
    The question is: does the improvement you see in these players allow LFC to win a title? If it can't do that, it is a waste of time. We are not a club engaged in the business of improving players and selling as some clubs do. When FSG brough Klopp, I suspect they wanted him to do what he did at Dortmund. He is yet to show us that he can build a balanced team that can do what is expected. His team's performance is as yo-yo as Rodgers' who was comparatively unknown or unproven when he was brought to LFC. So, don't blame us if we expect better from Klopp.
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  26. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    For the poster that coined the term "deadwood", to now post that Herr Klopp "underestimated the ability of the squad" and "underestimated the resources around him" is a real flop-flop. I mean, now you're saying the squad is much better than he thought it was and has more resources than he expected.

    Very Good - he has underestimated the ability of the squad - the deadwood is a liability - his plan was to use what he had
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    The question is: does the improvement you see in these players allow LFC to win a title? If it can't do that, it is a waste of time. We are not a club engaged in the business of improving players and selling as some clubs do. When FSG brough Klopp, I suspect they wanted him to do what he did at Dortmund. He is yet to show us that he can build a balanced team that can do what is expected. His team's performance is as yo-yo as Rodgers' who was comparatively unknown or unproven when he was brought to LFC. So, don't blame us if we expect better from Klopp.
    We are improving. Having top players out injured doesn't help.Did Lallana improve ? Mane is a better player here. Moreno has improved so much so he is back in the Spanish squad. Salah is better than a lot thought, certainly improved. These are not young players bought with potential, but established players who have improved under Klopp. There is a way to go yet as Klopp and his team know. He will bring new talent in in the obvious weak areas. Patience, which not many have here, is of the essence.
    Last edited by agb1037; 3-11-17 at 19:52.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Very Good - he has underestimated the ability of the squad - the deadwood is a liability - his plan was to use what he had
    H&A is pointing you towards the word ‘overestimated’.

    I do agree with you, I think Klopp underestimated the work needed to improve the things you’ve listed. It’s why he went from ‘I came here because the squad is a good one and little work is needed’ to the movement of 36 players in various directions in less than 2 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    We are improving. Having top players out injured doesn't help.Did Lallana improve ? Mane is a better player here. Moreno has improved so much so he is back in the Spanish squad. Salah is better than a lot thought, certainly improved. These are not young players bought with potential, but established players who have improved under Klopp. There is a way to go yet as Klopp and his team know. He will bring new talent in in the obvious weak areas. Patience, which not many have here, is of the essence.
    You haven't answered my question.
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  30. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    We are improving. Having top players out injured doesn't help.Did Lallana improve ? Mane is a better player here. Moreno has improved so much so he is back in the Spanish squad. Salah is better than a lot thought, certainly improved. These are not young players bought with potential, but established players who have improved under Klopp. There is a way to go yet as Klopp and his team know. He will bring new talent in in the obvious weak areas. Patience, which not many have here, is of the essence.
    You just made that **** up about Salah to add some meat to your point. It wasn’t necessary
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