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Thread: Jurgen Klopp - Episode IV

  1. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    I hope and pray he does so. The second half of the season is extremely important in many ways. We have to improve our points to game ratio significantly to make-up the deficit we have already created in the league to have any chance of even making it into the top 4. In CL, we are likely to face better opponents in the knock-out stage and beyond. Our only realistic chance at winning a trophy lies in the FA Cup and we need to do well in that competition. We cannot do this with a leaky injury prone defense.

    We are likely to lose some players at the end of the season (Can and possibly Cout). Attracting top talent without CL football is likely to prove difficult and we need to do well in the league to get the kind of players we need to replace these players. January is key to all of this.
    True, there are a number of positions that need attention and getting a head start in January is essential. And as you say we need to up our game if we want CL for next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Hopefully he will fix the defence.
    But i think his idea of gung ho doesn't suit the English game, and i would like a little bit of a stoic approach to our tactics in some games.
    Migs and lovren? I really don't think it's important. Once he gets tired of them, and he finds suitable replacements they will be moved on even with new deals
    That means somebody would have to give Lovren 100k a week. And whatever Mingolet is on. Easier said than done imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    he is a manager that improves players.

    mane has gone up two levels from his saints days
    lallana has reached new heights and is a big loss for us
    Moreno is a new player this season
    firmino has been very good up top in a new role
    sturridge finally seems to have found fitness (now for the form)
    gomez and trent have blossomed under him
    milner played really well for the most in a new role last season despite never playing there before

    even lovren and matip have generally looked the part when paired together. lovren has destroyed lukaku on multiple occasions and even aguero he has kept quiet.
    mignolet had a steady at best time towards the end of the year.

    klopp generally has a good track record in improving players so he showed lovren and mignolet some faith. however obviously klopp has his eyes on them as he did buy karius and and klavan and also wanted VVD. he seems to be easing karius in now too and recalled ward last year. I don't agree with migs at all but klopp obviously is not fully happy with him hence why karius was bought and pushing him.
    I agree with parts of this. I don't obviously with your point about Lovren.

    Look I know every player has mistakes in them, but Lovren seems to have a lot more in his game than most at top clubs. Same with Mingolet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Very Good - he has underestimated the ability of the squad - the deadwood is a liability - his plan was to use what he had
    Should he have bought more deadwood?
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    True, there are a number of positions that need attention and getting a head start in January is essential. And as you say we need to up our game if we want CL for next season.



    That means somebody would have to give Lovren 100k a week. And whatever Mingolet is on. Easier said than done imo.



    I agree with parts of this. I don't obviously with your point about Lovren.

    Look I know every player has mistakes in them, but Lovren seems to have a lot more in his game than most at top clubs. Same with Mingolet.
    Players have been moved on and players have rotten in the reserves. Even bad players on 100k a week. It's the nature of the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Players have been moved on and players have rotten in the reserves. Even bad players on 100k a week. It's the nature of the game.
    Our margins aren't that wide. And especially if we want to bring in quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    We're currently only 3 points off 4th, and 4 points off 3rd. We're hardly way off the pace yet, especially for a team that's supposedly in crisis, and we've played 2 of the strongest teams in the league away already. If this is us in terrible form then we surely have nothing to worry about...
    I never thought I would see the day LFC supports will be happy with a 1.6 points ratio per game which will put us on 60/61 points for the season. I also never thought we would have a fan base that is happy to rejoice being 12 points off the leaders with just 10 games in. I know you can make statistics into whatever you want but the hard fact of dropping points against the likes of Watford, Burnley and Newcastle cannot be wished away. How standards have come down! I would worry a lot about us unless we improve seriously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    Our margins aren't that wide. And especially if we want to bring in quality.
    We have been in similar situations before. I am more worried about how we almost for a decade struggle to identify players, then two contracts with bad players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    I never thought I would see the day LFC supports will be happy with a 1.6 points ratio per game which will put us on 60/61 points for the season. I also never thought we would have a fan base that is happy to rejoice being 12 points off the leaders with just 10 games in. I know you can make statistics into whatever you want but the hard fact of dropping points against the likes of Watford, Burnley and Newcastle cannot be wished away. How standards have come down! I would worry a lot about us unless we improve seriously.
    It have been like that for a long time.
    You expect 28 years of bad habits to be turned over night. If that's not living in an illusion, i will struggle to identify what it is
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    what has me trying to get fan ownership of Liverpool fc got to do with anything.

    and secondly, yes rafa moaned about transfers. what on earth did that have to do with 'SAVING LIVERPOOL'!? did he broker some sort of deal? did he get rbs to do anything? NO! the banks knew we were getting worse and worse. rafa moaned at inter that he was not being given funds (the club was struggling financially) and they ended up sacking him there!
    1 ) we started a conversation about the debts and about the club going into liquidation

    You only mentioned in your last reply that you were part of red white Kop what was trying to buy the club

    Why did you have to wait write to the end to say it


    2) no my response was you said to me that Rafa Benitez says nothing about the ownership

    Then in your own reply you did mention that Rafa Benitez did mention about the owner's

    Which I then replied you can't have it both ways either he did or didn't speak about the owners
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    do you REALLLLY think the OFFICIAL club website would talk or say anything about the dangers the club was facing? they had to come out with the yearly statements which showed we were in the red and that was on the club website but they were hardly going to post 'we are struggling with our debts!'

    so of course the independent websites and the footballing world knew about the problems and how hicks and Gillette were trying to sell us!

    there were also so many non stop complaints on the forums against the owners! were you asleep at that time?
    My point was trying to say that no one on here paid or unpaid forum had discussed anything remotely like what was going on

    Independent websites and and the main group of fans from red white and Kop

    As there was far more information and far more discussion
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGirum View Post
    The question is: does the improvement you see in these players allow LFC to win a title? If it can't do that, it is a waste of time. We are not a club engaged in the business of improving players and selling as some clubs do. When FSG brough Klopp, I suspect they wanted him to do what he did at Dortmund. He is yet to show us that he can build a balanced team that can do what is expected. His team's performance is as yo-yo as Rodgers' who was comparatively unknown or unproven when he was brought to LFC. So, don't blame us if we expect better from Klopp.
    why is it a waste of time if it means we wont win the league this year or next year or the year after?

    if we are playing cl football say three times in a row under klopp, would that be a waste of time? that would be massive for a club like us who have been out of the CL since rafas last year and only had one CL campaign with Rodgers. Three CL campaigns in a row will help propel us further and improve the squad and finances to compete higher up. many wont accept this and claim it is 'lowering of the bar'.

    he has built an attack to be admired with salah and mane. they look like two amazing signings. he is still building and I think we can all agree he is still building hence why karius is getting games. hence why he wanted vvd. hence why keita is coming in.

    it seems some people are not happy with the speed he is building at. however its clear to me he knows where he wants to improve and he thought some would step up that have not. fergie gave average players plenty of years. some were a mainstay in his squad. fergie also liked developing players as they would be perfect fit for his side. players like wes brown, phil nev, john oshea, fletcher etc were average but because they were trained 'fergies way' hence why they would more than not perform to the required level. we have a real chance of that with a manager like klopp bringing through trent, gomez, woodburn and soon Wilson, Brewster etc.

    we are not a club that can just spend 50-80m on lots of players to fill in gaps so the way around it is to buy a few first teamers and a few you develop. I don't see to many better managers at doing that then klopp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    My point was trying to say that no one on here paid or unpaid forum had discussed anything remotely like what was going on

    Independent websites and and the main group of fans from red white and Kop

    As there was far more information and far more discussion
    What? And what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Seamus- View Post
    Like what Steviewonder said, if we lose Coutinho the money has to be used on proper quality.

    And at the risk of repeating myself an overhaul in defence and a top Keeper is needed. Imo, he really needs to get cracking on it in January.
    I'm not arguing about that we need

    A goalkeeper as mention that we also need two Central defenders left back defensive midfielder

    As well as a central midfielder and a striker
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    I'm not arguing about that we need

    A goalkeeper as mention that we also need two Central defenders left back defensive midfielder

    As well as a central midfielder and a striker
    And a partridge in a pear tree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    1 ) we started a conversation about the debts and about the club going into liquidation

    You only mentioned in your last reply that you were part of red white Kop what was trying to buy the club

    Why did you have to wait write to the end to say it


    2) no my response was you said to me that Rafa Benitez says nothing about the ownership

    Then in your own reply you did mention that Rafa Benitez did mention about the owner's

    Which I then replied you can't have it both ways either he did or didn't speak about the owners


    1) I have mentioned it numerous times in the past and in the fsg debates. not my fault you were not reading it and still makes no difference to this discussion!

    ") you were saying how rafa bought the owners in the spotlight which got us saved. that could not be further from the truth. rafa moaned that other clubs had more money than us. that was about it. nothing what rafa did impacted RBS calling in their loan and selling the club to FSG. you stated rafa 'saved the club'. that is so far from the truth. your clutching at straws trying to claim that rafa speaking out now is a him saving the club.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    1 & 2: Keep what you have until you can get better in, it's not rocket science... Or would you have preferred we let them go and be starting Matip-Klavan with only Gomez as cover?

    He's moved out a lot of the bloated mess of a squad he inherited and brought in 10 or so replacements. There is still plenty of work until the entire 21-25 is at the desired level but I think getting rid of the worst trash first and having replacements in place before shipping the best of the bad lot is probably the best approach...
    We end now with Klavan, Matip and Gomez as cover

    As Lovren is caring in injury and I think the manager dropped him to take a little bit stress away from him
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Should he have bought more deadwood?
    He could of brought the best back 5 in the world and with the plan used for the last 116 games - yes they too would of been deadwood
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    1 ) we started a conversation about the debts and about the club going into liquidation

    You only mentioned in your last reply that you were part of red white Kop what was trying to buy the club

    Why did you have to wait write to the end to say it


    2) no my response was you said to me that Rafa Benitez says nothing about the ownership

    Then in your own reply you did mention that Rafa Benitez did mention about the owner's

    Which I then replied you can't have it both ways either he did or didn't speak about the owners


    these are my posts:

    ''Haha!

    How on earth did rafa 'save the club' though!?

    He did nothing to save the club. The banks recalled their loan, the owners had to sell. Rafa does nothing to operate on that level. The banks do not deal at all with rafa. Literally zero!

    Your view on rafa is laughable about him wearing a cape and saving the club!

    Rafa is a gent, great guy, but 'saving the club', mate that is absolutely insane. ''

    and also

    ''Mate, I was part of a group trying to get fan ownership to buy the club! I'm fully aware of what happened.

    Rafa had ZERO influence on our buying and selling. He did nothing at all. He went to the media and moaned a bit about the owners. That makes zero difference. It has nothing at all to do with the banks and their assessment on how big the loan was getting. Rafa wanted more money to spend on players. That alone was dangerous as we were in the red!

    Once again, rafa had nothing at all to do with the club being saved. Zero. Laughable you think so.''


    i stand by what i said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Hopefully he will fix the defence.
    But i think his idea of gung ho doesn't suit the English game, and i would like a little bit of a stoic approach to our tactics in some games.
    Migs and lovren? I really don't think it's important. Once he gets tired of them, and he finds suitable replacements they will be moved on even with new deals
    The high pressing passing aggressive play

    Wet worked brilliantly for Arsenal when they have right players

    Same with Manchester City

    That why do get why we played brilliantly last season in the unbeaten run of that aggressive way of playing

    To slow methodical non creative no width lacking imagination
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    My point was trying to say that no one on here paid or unpaid forum had discussed anything remotely like what was going on

    Independent websites and and the main group of fans from red white and Kop

    As there was far more information and far more discussion
    there was non stop discussions on here. again i don't know how you can feel there was not. ask any of the old timers on here.

    you keep changing your tune anyway. fact is the clubs official website would be stupid to post about us being so badly in the red etc. you claimed the club did not say anything as some sort of proof!

    fans were protesting at games! there were even shirts sold with 'standards corrupted' written on them. i bought one!

    i really think you are losing the point here mate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    The high pressing passing aggressive play

    Wet worked brilliantly for Arsenal when they have right players

    Same with Manchester City

    That why do get why we played brilliantly last season in the unbeaten run of that aggressive way of playing

    To slow methodical non creative no width lacking imagination
    Good point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    He could of brought the best back 5 in the world and with the plan used for the last 116 games - yes they too would of been deadwood
    O yeah he could, all five of them
    Wich five?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    why is it a waste of time if it means we wont win the league this year or next year or the year after?

    if we are playing cl football say three times in a row under klopp, would that be a waste of time? that would be massive for a club like us who have been out of the CL since rafas last year and only had one CL campaign with Rodgers. Three CL campaigns in a row will help propel us further and improve the squad and finances to compete higher up. many wont accept this and claim it is 'lowering of the bar'.

    he has built an attack to be admired with salah and mane. they look like two amazing signings. he is still building and I think we can all agree he is still building hence why karius is getting games. hence why he wanted vvd. hence why keita is coming in.

    it seems some people are not happy with the speed he is building at. however its clear to me he knows where he wants to improve and he thought some would step up that have not. fergie gave average players plenty of years. some were a mainstay in his squad. fergie also liked developing players as they would be perfect fit for his side. players like wes brown, phil nev, john oshea, fletcher etc were average but because they were trained 'fergies way' hence why they would more than not perform to the required level. we have a real chance of that with a manager like klopp bringing through trent, gomez, woodburn and soon Wilson, Brewster etc.

    we are not a club that can just spend 50-80m on lots of players to fill in gaps so the way around it is to buy a few first teamers and a few you develop. I don't see to many better managers at doing that then klopp.
    Look, I want him to succeed because I want LFC to succeed but this club was never about 'participation only'. This club lived for trophies. Winning titles does wonders for a club and the money cannot be worse than finishing 4th. So, I want us to win titles and trophies. When you see what Spurs and Poch are doing you really wonder whether LFC should settle for piece-meal changes despite their vast global following and better financial clout. I feel we can do better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    People were complaining when rodgers bought a lot of deadwood, just for the sake of buying.
    And the same people will complain when klopp don't buy a lot of deadwood, just for the sake of buying
    Brendan Rodgers brought one hit wonders and friends

    Klopp like to work with average players believing there good enough to win the Premier League

    And occasionally dipping his toe in the transfer window
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    The high pressing passing aggressive play

    Wet worked brilliantly for Arsenal when they have right players

    Same with Manchester City

    That why do get why we played brilliantly last season in the unbeaten run of that aggressive way of playing

    To slow methodical non creative no width lacking imagination
    in 15 games we have 30 goals this season. missed three pens too in the process!

    the way we played worked better with lallana and mane. however with a slimmer squad, it fell flat when the players were running on empty after Christmas. its a fine balance to press so much and play so aggressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    Brendan Rodgers brought one hit wonders and friends

    Klopp like to work with average players believing there good enough to win the Premier League

    And occasionally dipping his toe in the transfer window
    Friends? The last thing rodgers was and is, is friendly to his players
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Friends? The last thing rodgers was and is, is friendly to his players
    How do you know that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    why is it a waste of time if it means we wont win the league this year or next year or the year after?

    if we are playing cl football say three times in a row under klopp, would that be a waste of time? that would be massive for a club like us who have been out of the CL since rafas last year and only had one CL campaign with Rodgers. Three CL campaigns in a row will help propel us further and improve the squad and finances to compete higher up. many wont accept this and claim it is 'lowering of the bar'.

    he has built an attack to be admired with salah and mane. they look like two amazing signings. he is still building and I think we can all agree he is still building hence why karius is getting games. hence why he wanted vvd. hence why keita is coming in.

    it seems some people are not happy with the speed he is building at. however its clear to me he knows where he wants to improve and he thought some would step up that have not. fergie gave average players plenty of years. some were a mainstay in his squad. fergie also liked developing players as they would be perfect fit for his side. players like wes brown, phil nev, john oshea, fletcher etc were average but because they were trained 'fergies way' hence why they would more than not perform to the required level. we have a real chance of that with a manager like klopp bringing through trent, gomez, woodburn and soon Wilson, Brewster etc.

    we are not a club that can just spend 50-80m on lots of players to fill in gaps so the way around it is to buy a few first teamers and a few you develop. I don't see to many better managers at doing that then klopp.
    Brought this up before

    Germany there's only Bayern Munich the rest scrap it out before selling their best players Bayern Munich

    So was quite achievement to challenge Bayern Munich

    Premier League if you want to be in the top four you don't wait three or four seasons if your team needs to be built by then the competition will be much harder to be level with them
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    O yeah he could, all five of them
    Wich five?
    Who do you want - Neuer - Lahm - Ramos - Silva - Marcello or Buffon - Alves - Godin - Chiellini - Alaba
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    The high pressing passing aggressive play

    Wet worked brilliantly for Arsenal when they have right players

    Same with Manchester City

    That why do get why we played brilliantly last season in the unbeaten run of that aggressive way of playing

    To slow methodical non creative no width lacking imagination
    High press doesn't work if teams sit back and boot the ball up the other end of the pitch. Only the dumb try playing it out from the back against us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    in 15 games we have 30 goals this season. missed three pens too in the process!

    the way we played worked better with lallana and mane. however with a slimmer squad, it fell flat when the players were running on empty after Christmas. its a fine balance to press so much and play so aggressive.
    Like I said go from Henderson Wijnaldum Lallana

    Technical flare aggression and so forth

    To Henderson and James Milner Can

    To workmanlike performance not good enough
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