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Thread: Suso Discussion Thread

  1. #91  
    steviewonder87 is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    I have very little confidence in us bringing through younger players now, to be honest. We seem more than happy to just keep buying in their positions, rather than give them chances. I expect the likes of Woodburn, Wilson and others to trumble along for a few years then move on. Hopefully I'm wrong, though.

    People talk about Alli and how we missed out on him, but does anybody believe he'd have turned out as good here as he did at Spurs? He went straight into their first team, whereas I guarantee he'd have been in our u23s with various loans for a few seasons. Regardless of how and why Suso left, he's still a talented young player who felt the need to leave because he wasn't going to get enough chances here.
    Tbf, Kane was loaned out all over the shop and for a long time I'm sure he wasn't even on Spurs' radar for a possible first team player, let alone their main man.
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  2. #92  
    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Tbf, Kane was loaned out all over the shop and for a long time I'm sure he wasn't even on Spurs' radar for a possible first team player, let alone their main man.
    He's the exception to the rule. How many other players have made it like that? How many of our players, more to the point? We seem to always have a handful of young players we expect big things from, but they always fizzle out with limited chances and move elsewhere. TAA and Gomez are getting starts at the moment, but would they had Clyne been fit? I'm not sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Tbf, Kane was loaned out all over the shop and for a long time I'm sure he wasn't even on Spurs' radar for a possible first team player, let alone their main man.
    Also perhaps worth mentioning Gomez - he arrived here at the same time as Alli at Spurs and went straight into our first team. If not for his injuries we could be talking about him as a similar success story by now. Joe's a year younger.

    I honestly don't think Spurs assessment of him, pre-signing, was much different from ours - that he probably wasn't quite ready for top flight first team football. But as soon as he started training with them, and in his first opportunities in the first team, he proved otherwise.

    That could just as well have happened here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    He's the exception to the rule. How many other players have made it like that? How many of our players, more to the point? We seem to always have a handful of young players we expect big things from, but they always fizzle out with limited chances and move elsewhere. TAA and Gomez are getting starts at the moment, but would they had Clyne been fit? I'm not sure.
    Some call it luck, others call it circumstance.

    Would Ian Rush have got a chance if David Johnson hadn't got injured? I don't care what anyone says, it's not just talent, it's also to do with application and attitude. It took Steve Nicol until 1985 to make that right back slot his own. Phil Neal was asked how long would he be able to keep Nicol out. Nicol perservered because he had the right attitude, Neal applied himself and kept his place.

    The same applied to Jim Beglin, it took him two years to oust Alan Kennedy. Both showed the required application and attitude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    He's the exception to the rule. How many other players have made it like that? How many of our players, more to the point? We seem to always have a handful of young players we expect big things from, but they always fizzle out with limited chances and move elsewhere. TAA and Gomez are getting starts at the moment, but would they had Clyne been fit? I'm not sure.
    So is Suso. Just about the only player we lost for a pittance who's gone on to be a player that might have been good enough for us.
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  6. #96  
    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Also perhaps worth mentioning Gomez - he arrived here at the same time as Alli at Spurs and went straight into our first team. If not for his injuries we could be talking about him as a similar success story by now. Joe's a year younger.

    I honestly don't think Spurs assessment of him, pre-signing, was much different from ours - that he probably wasn't quite ready for top flight first team football. But as soon as he started training with them, and in his first opportunities in the first team, he proved otherwise.

    That could just as well have happened here.
    Gomez was thrown into the deep end, out of position, due to injuries though wasn't he? I don't think he was actually signed with the idea of going straight into the team, which Alli was at Spurs.

    Perhaps he would have done the same here, but I just don't think so.
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  7. #97  
    WilbertoSilva is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    So is Suso. Just about the only player we lost for a pittance who's gone on to be a player that might have been good enough for us.
    Fair point, but still thought it was fairly obvious he was going to be a very good player. Let's hope he remains the exception, as I can see a few more happening in the near future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    Gomez was thrown into the deep end, out of position, due to injuries though wasn't he? I don't think he was actually signed with the idea of going straight into the team, which Alli was at Spurs.

    Perhaps he would have done the same here, but I just don't think so.
    As I said though, I don't think that was the idea at Spurs. He surprised everyone.

    And, by your own opinion - even using Gomez like that was "throwing him into the deep end" - it's a tough world for young players these days.

    Edit - I've just checked and it seems Moreno was available for all of those games, Joe was picked ahead of him.
    Last edited by ***Stuzzza***; 12-11-17 at 15:45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    I have very little confidence in us bringing through younger players now, to be honest. We seem more than happy to just keep buying in their positions, rather than give them chances. I expect the likes of Woodburn, Wilson and others to trumble along for a few years then move on. Hopefully I'm wrong, though.

    People talk about Alli and how we missed out on him, but does anybody believe he'd have turned out as good here as he did at Spurs? He went straight into their first team, whereas I guarantee he'd have been in our u23s with various loans for a few seasons. Regardless of how and why Suso left, he's still a talented young player who felt the need to leave because he wasn't going to get enough chances here.
    Its a tricky one to get right. Do you trust the kids and give them the time to develop knowing the pressure they'll be under to perform at a club like LFC? We don't have the finances to compete for the finished articles, but we haven't exactly shown a willingness to give too many young players a go either, unless you count the odd cup game. Rodgers gave Wisdom, Suso and Sterling their chance but you'd wonder if that was to buy him some breathing space at the time rather than a firm policy. And for some reason those few that got the opportunity, such as Sterling and Can, end up moving on.

    Instead it's a compromise between the two where we went through a spell of accumulating a host of players for not inconsiderable sums who were nearly all middle of the road in terms of quality. No wonder the kids want to go when every year we signed 6-7 players who just bloated the squad rather than raised the level of the first team.

    Will certainly be interesting to see how the likes of Woodburn, Grujic et al develop. How many players have returned from a loan spell ready to step up? Our record on that front is abysmal.
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    Suso didn't have that grafter work ethic that Rodgers/brits love more than actual talent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2 View Post
    Suso didn't have that grafter work ethic that Rodgers/brits love more than actual talent
    he still won't have it if he comes to the Prem. Newspaper gossip.
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    IF, If Suso comes, would he count as a home grown talent?
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  13. #103  
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDREAMOFGINI View Post
    he still won't have it if he comes to the Prem. Newspaper gossip.
    Neither did Sterling.

    But Suso might just score 10+ goals and make 10+ assist.

    BR was an idiot in regard to how he handled youngsters. He used them as scapegoats and picked on them as a means to show his "authority", or if were called Sterling, he'd inflate your ego to think you're the best thing happened to the club since Gerrard.

    Just a rumor https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...5m-deal-report but if Coutinho leaves for around 100m then 35m on Suso would be a good option.
    Last edited by MachineGoal; 13-11-17 at 13:21.
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  14. #104  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGoal View Post
    Neither did Sterling.

    But Suso might just score 10+ goals and make 10+ assist.

    BR was an idiot in regard to how he handled youngsters. He used them as scapegoats and picked on them as a means to show his "authority", or if were called Sterling, he'd inflate your ego to think you're the best thing happened to the club since Gerrard.

    Just a rumor https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...5m-deal-report but if Coutinho leaves for around 100m then 35m on Suso would be a good option.
    Why would spending 35 million on a player that didn't cut it first time around be 'a good option? There is no logic in that comment whatsoever. Selling Coutinho is also ludicrous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    Why would spending 35 million on a player that didn't cut it first time around be 'a good option? There is no logic in that comment whatsoever. Selling Coutinho is also ludicrous.
    He's proven to be one of the best attacking talent in italy raight now, that's a fact. He left here in order to get away from a manager who wasn't going to give him games, that's is diffent to getting plenty of opportunity and failing.

    Coutinho will be sold, everyone knows that, as much as we like to keep him.
    Last edited by LordJamieOfCarragher; 13-11-17 at 14:02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGoal View Post
    You talk rubbish. He's proven to be one of the best attacking talent in italy raight now, that's a fact. He left here in order to get away from a manager who wasn't going to give him games, that's is diffent to getting plenty of opportunity and failing.

    Coutinho will be sold, everyone knows that, as much as we like to keep him.
    Coutinho will be sold despite the fact Liverpool said he's not for sale. That makes a lot of sense. Secondly spending 35 million on a player that was let go for a pittance is really intelligent. Thank goodness Liverpool don't follow that logic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    Coutinho will be sold despite the fact Liverpool said he's not for sale. That makes a lot of sense.
    You can't keep an unhappy player indefinitely, once the replacement is in place we'll let him go and hopefully we get as much as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGoal View Post
    You can't keep an unhappy player indefinitely, once the replacement is in place we'll let him go and hopefully we get as much as possible.
    Coutinho is 'unhappy' despite the fact he's said he's very happy.
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  19. #109  
    LordJamieOfCarragher is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    This thread is about Suso, not Coutinho.

    Also, cut it out with the put downs, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    Coutinho is 'unhappy' despite the fact he's said he's very happy..
    Really? Someone who handed in a tranfer request is perfectly happy? I think he means, he's happy for now until tranfer window opens again.

    Honestly, when he's sold just don't be shocked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGoal View Post
    Really? Someone who handed in a tranfer request is perfectly happy

    Honestly, when he's sold just don't be shocked.
    Explain to me how he managed to hand in a transfer request yet Liverpool never received a transfer request? The only outlet that suggested that a transfer request was submitted was the Spanish media who did so for one reason...propaganda. They have continuously spun speculation which has no fact for months just to save face.

    They placed one bid and it was rejected. According to the Spanish media they placed three bids one of which was a "take it or leave it bid". This is what is known as fabricated nonsense. That doesn't change the fact that offering 35 million for a player that didn't make the cut previously which YOU suggested makes any sense.
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  22. #112  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    Explain to me how he managed to hand in a transfer request yet Liverpool never received a transfer request? The only outlet that suggested that a transfer request was submitted was the Spanish media who did so for one reason...propaganda. They have continuously spun speculation which has no fact for months just to save face.

    They placed one bid and it was rejected. According to the Spanish media they placed three bids one of which was a "take it or leave it bid". This is what is known as fabricated nonsense. That doesn't change the fact that offering 35 million for a player that didn't make the cut previously which YOU suggested makes any sense.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40897688

    I have told you the difference between, not getting games to prove yourself because some second rate manager doesn't believe in you (just because when we aren't in possession you aren't chasing around like a headless chicken), and getting plenty of opportunity then failing. Suso at Almeria - best attacking player there, Suso at Genoa - best attacking player there, Suso at Milan- best attacking player there. He has proven when he has the faith of the manager and gets regular games, he become one of if not the best attacking player for the team.
    Last edited by MachineGoal; 13-11-17 at 14:32.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilbertoSilva View Post
    Gomez was thrown into the deep end, out of position, due to injuries though wasn't he? I don't think he was actually signed with the idea of going straight into the team, which Alli was at Spurs.

    Perhaps he would have done the same here, but I just don't think so.
    I thought Gomez was giving his debut by Brendan Rodgers at left back by choice

    But I'm not quite sure
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    Why would spending 35 million on a player that didn't cut it first time around be 'a good option? There is no logic in that comment whatsoever. Selling Coutinho is also ludicrous.
    The handful of games he played for Liverpool he didn't look out of place

    His time back in Spain he looked quite comfortable in that League and a player with huge potential

    Went to Italy and become even more of a rounded player

    The fact that we had at the time a manager who couldn't tell the difference between left and right up and down shouldn't be the basis to judge a player
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