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Thread: Should we feel more positive? (League position and missing players)

  1. #1 Crest Should we feel more positive? (League position and missing players) 
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    Our league position is not bad considering the players we have had missing most the season. These players are namely, Mane, Lallana, Coutinho, Clyne. Arguably key players. Mane was looking world class before his injuries. Coutinho, well we know he can play quite well. Clyne was underrated and very solid defensively. And lallana I feel most importantly, set the tempo of our pressing game, which has dropped off dramatically since his injury.
    I remember a recent thread discussing who our captain should be, I feel in effect itís Lallana. Not to mention adding creativity to our midfield.

    My point is this, should we not feel some what positive, knowing 4 very key players have been missing, and we are still knocking on the door of 4th spot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Zep View Post
    Our league position is not bad considering the players we have had missing most the season. These players are namely, Mane, Lallana, Coutinho, Clyne. Arguably key players. Mane was looking world class before his injuries. Coutinho, well we know he can play quite well. Clyne was underrated and very solid defensively. And lallana I feel most importantly, set the tempo of our pressing game, which has dropped off dramatically since his injury.
    I remember a recent thread discussing who our captain should be, I feel in effect itís Lallana. Not to mention adding creativity to our midfield.

    My point is this, should we not feel some what positive, knowing 4 very key players have been missing, and we are still knocking on the door of 4th spot?
    Yes I'm very positive for this season still. I reckon we could be 3rd or 4th in the league and in say the semis of the FA Cup and Quarters of CL come April. Good times are coming under Klopp, our chances of winning the league are ********** but that doesn't mean we still can't have very a memorable season.

    I think Lallana is the best team player we have - and that's saying something, Salah, Firmino and Mane are immense too. But I honestly think he's the best. I'd have Firmino as captain. He's fearless and the first name on the team sheet.

    I'm glad Clyne's been out because it's meant we've grown depth in that position with Gomez and TAA. Hopefully his return may see TAA given a chance in midfield too - which I'm very positive about.
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    Yeah we should get better with all our players back, looking forward to Lallana's return. Results and performances have often been poor this season but we find ourselves in a ok position considering.
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    It's difficult to be positive because, Clyne aside, none of the returning players actually play in a problem position for us. We have lots of options at #8 or in the front three. We haven't struggled scoring goals.

    We HAVE struggled with conceding them and I don't see any centre backs, goalkeepers or defensive midfielders being fit just round the corner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGothAndaJock View Post
    Yes I'm very positive for this season still. I reckon we could be 3rd or 4th in the league and in say the semis of the FA Cup and Quarters of CL come April. Good times are coming under Klopp, our chances of winning the league are ********** but that doesn't mean we still can't have very a memorable season.

    I think Lallana is the best team player we have - and that's saying something, Salah, Firmino and Mane are immense too. But I honestly think he's the best. I'd have Firmino as captain. He's fearless and the first name on the team sheet.

    I'm glad Clyne's been out because it's meant we've grown depth in that position with Gomez and TAA. Hopefully his return may see TAA given a chance in midfield too - which I'm very positive about.

    I agree on most points. Lallana has been a huge miss. You have to admit he acted like a captain. Our midfield just lost its ability to press when he was injured. Watching older games, it seems like he leads the charge. I agree on Clyne injury being an opportunity. Gomez is looking good again, and those who say otherwise need to remember he is 20 and came back from a very serious experience injury. He looks physically stronger as well.

    I have been negative this season. But on reflection, I think this season could still see us on the right track. And we are in the champions league, and look to be going into the qualifying stages. We should savour this, especially as our team looks suited to the knockout format.
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    We've done ok until now, hopefully we can keep going & then build on this when we have back the players you've mentioned.
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    Also, going to say it now, Lallana will not be the saviour people are painting him out to be.

    a) If you average out his performances over his entire Liverpool career, he's been very ordinary. We're yet to see if last season was a purple patch (see: Mahrez) or his true ability as an 8

    b) He's coming back from a massive injury. Even if he IS that good, it'll take him weeks to months to regain the same levels of fitness and match ability that he had.

    c) He isn't a defensive midfielder or a defender. He doesn't fix our problem area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyfagan View Post
    Also, going to say it now, Lallana will not be the saviour people are painting him out to be.

    a) If you average out his performances over his entire Liverpool career, he's been very ordinary. We're yet to see if last season was a purple patch (see: Mahrez) or his true ability as an 8

    b) He's coming back from a massive injury. Even if he IS that good, it'll take him weeks to months to regain the same levels of fitness and match ability that he had.

    c) He isn't a defensive midfielder or a defender. He doesn't fix our problem area.
    He was fairly ordinary under Brendan, but I feel he's largely been a better player since Jurgen became manager.

    I'd certainly rather he was in the team than out of it. Plus he's the only one (other than Coutinho) who can offer a consistent threat from midfield.
    No deal, no dice. Shot at and missed, **** on and hit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMjolnir View Post
    He was fairly ordinary under Brendan, but I feel he's largely been a better player since Jurgen became manager.

    I'd certainly rather he was in the team than out of it. Plus he's the only one (other than Coutinho) who can offer a consistent threat from midfield.
    I think that he's only been a better player since he was taken out of the front 3, which only happened last season.

    I didn't see a massive difference between the Rodgers Lallana and Klopp Lallana as an attacking midfielder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyfagan View Post
    I think that he's only been a better player since he was taken out of the front 3, which only happened last season.

    I didn't see a massive difference between the Rodgers Lallana and Klopp Lallana as an attacking midfielder.
    I disagree.

    The front 3 of Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana was lethal straight away. And worked well behind Sturridge or Origi in the run to the Europa League Final. Lallana has been very good since Klopp took charge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyfagan View Post
    Also, going to say it now, Lallana will not be the saviour people are painting him out to be.

    a) If you average out his performances over his entire Liverpool career, he's been very ordinary. We're yet to see if last season was a purple patch (see: Mahrez) or his true ability as an 8

    b) He's coming back from a massive injury. Even if he IS that good, it'll take him weeks to months to regain the same levels of fitness and match ability that he had.

    c) He isn't a defensive midfielder or a defender. He doesn't fix our problem area.

    a) I agree on this statement. However I’m viewing Lallana in what he added to our midfield, since he was moved there by Klopp. He has been sorely missed. I agree we need better midfield players, but this does not change the fact that Lallana became important to the balance of our midfield, which has been inept without him.

    b) I’m fearful of this also, let’s hope he recovers as quickly as possible.

    c) I agree, and I have made threads making this kind of statement in my short career as LFC forum poster. I even brought up Sacko and Lucas as a device for highlighting the foolishness of not replacing players in our weakest areas. But this does not take away the importance of Lallana to us currently. Until we have these new players, Lallana is a key player in midfield. So I believe my original point stands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyfagan View Post
    Also, going to say it now, Lallana will not be the saviour people are painting him out to be.

    a) If you average out his performances over his entire Liverpool career, he's been very ordinary. We're yet to see if last season was a purple patch (see: Mahrez) or his true ability as an 8

    b) He's coming back from a massive injury. Even if he IS that good, it'll take him weeks to months to regain the same levels of fitness and match ability that he had.

    c) He isn't a defensive midfielder or a defender. He doesn't fix our problem area.
    He is the most overrated Liverpool player I have ever seen. Ever since he signed his new contract, he has 1 goal and 0 assists, yet people act as if he's the answer to our problems. Imagine your highest praise, as a footballer, being to do with pressing.
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    In the sense the knockout stage of the Champions league and top 4 is in our own hands, I suppose so. We had a bad summer and the title was never a realistic shout. With what we have, weíve done alright and hopefully will only improve as the months go on, in which case it can still be a good season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKnucklesOfAgger View Post
    In the sense the knockout stage of the Champions league and top 4 is in our own hands, I suppose so. We had a bad summer and the title was never a realistic shout. With what we have, we’ve done alright and hopefully will only improve as the months go on, in which case it can still be a good season.
    This seems balanced. And it’s how I’m now choosing to view things.
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    Put it like this.
    We've barely got out of 3rd gear (out of 6) and we've only lost twice this season, had some of our most important players out at different stages and don't think Klopp has fielded his FIRST 11 once so far this season.

    Yet here we are 4 points off 2nd 4 points off a Spurs side the media can't seem to get enough of falling in love with this season and a Man U Side that beat who they should and are bang average against anyone else!

    Our goals against stat (something the media et ell beat us with constantly) is heavily skewed by 9 Goals in 2 games, one of which we were down to 10 men for about an hour against what we now know is far and away the best side in the League by some distance.

    Yeah, we can, and i believe we will improve as we are no where near our potential so far with 11 games of the season gone whereas you can argue that Man U have been playing at their level and arent miles aeay from us at all.

    We need to get better for sure, but are not in crisis! - far from it.

    But those thinking we were a Title challenging side with the SAME Defence as last season are totally deluded and are the ones saying we are!
    Last edited by KloppOfTheWorld; 12-11-17 at 17:49.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyfagan View Post
    It's difficult to be positive because, Clyne aside, none of the returning players actually play in a problem position for us. We have lots of options at #8 or in the front three. We haven't struggled scoring goals.

    We HAVE struggled with conceding them and I don't see any centre backs, goalkeepers or defensive midfielders being fit just round the corner.
    Yep spot on.
    I can see Jurgen buying an attacking MF in Jan as we only have around 6/7. He's already got another coming in the summer (Keita)
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    Quote Originally Posted by KloppOfTheWorld View Post
    Put it like this.
    We've barely got out of 3rd gear (out of 6) and we've only lost twice this season, had some of our most important players out at different stages and don't think Klopp has fielded his FIRST 11 once so far this season.

    Yet here we are 4 points off 2nd 4 points off a Spurs side the media can't seem to get enough of falling in love with this season and a Man U Side that beat who they should and are bang average against anyone else!

    Our goals against stat (something the media et ell beat us with constantly) is heavily skewed by 9 Goals in 2 games, one of which we were down to 10 men for about an hour against what we now know is far and away the best side in the League by some distance.

    Yeah, we can, and i believe we will improve as we are no where near our potential so far with 11 games of the season gone whereas you can argue that Man U have been playing at their level and arent miles aeay from us at all.

    We need to get better for sure, but are not in crisis! - far from it.

    But those thinking we were a Title challenging side with the SAME Defence as last season are totally deluded and are the ones saying we are!
    1-9 was the aggregate score in those defeats against 2 of our rivals to boot. Yeah loads of positives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    1-9 was the aggregate score in those defeats against 2 of our rivals to boot. Yeah loads of positives.
    Have we not smashed our rivals to see them bounce back? - which we have since the Spurs game!

    If you want to isolate 2 poor performances against 2 high quality sides; the 1st we were ARGUABLY the better side until we went 1 nil down against the run of play and then had one of our key players sent off for what many of the players at the time felt unjust so mentally were at Sea at a key stage in the game (I remember the game intimately as i was Watching it with my Son AT Anfield as part of their big screen hospitality!) and lost their heads ( inexplicably), and the other where our key Defender had such a horror show he was hooked within half an hour but in the 2nd half the Spurs Keeper had a great game to keep us out (albeit the damage was already done) as a reason to give a sarcastic reply regarding positives then you truly expose yourself to the type of fan you are.

    But then again maybe you were one of those embarrassingly saying that we could win the league at the beginning of the Season.
    Last edited by KloppOfTheWorld; 12-11-17 at 18:41.
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    no because our back four and keeper apart from Clyne are at full strength and are costing us points almost weekly with brain fart moments and are not learning from it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Can't defend View Post
    no because our back four and keeper apart from Clyne are at full strength and are costing us points almost weekly with brain fart moments and are not learning from it
    I would argue some atrocious finishing has cost us more. We've only lost twice!

    Against arguably the two best Teams in the league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KloppOfTheWorld View Post
    Put it like this.
    We've barely got out of 3rd gear (out of 6) and we've only lost twice this season, had some of our most important players out at different stages and don't think Klopp has fielded his FIRST 11 once so far this season.

    Yet here we are 4 points off 2nd 4 points off a Spurs side the media can't seem to get enough of falling in love with this season and a Man U Side that beat who they should and are bang average against anyone else!

    Our goals against stat (something the media et ell beat us with constantly) is heavily skewed by 9 Goals in 2 games, one of which we were down to 10 men for about an hour against what we now know is far and away the best side in the League by some distance.

    Yeah, we can, and i believe we will improve as we are no where near our potential so far with 11 games of the season gone whereas you can argue that Man U have been playing at their level and arent miles aeay from us at all.

    We need to get better for sure, but are not in crisis! - far from it.

    But those thinking we were a Title challenging side with the SAME Defence as last season are totally deluded and are the ones saying we are!
    I agree. Feels like things are only going to get better. I’m expecting us to have some amazing knockout games in the champions league as well. It was not that long ago when we were inspiring against Man Utd and Dortmund in the UEFA cup. I think this team can do well over two legs against most teams.

    So we have key players coming back, and inspiring European nights at Anfield to give this team a boost.
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    This podcast made me feel better, whether or not it should:

    https://audioboom.com/posts/6466416-...ael-honigstein
    Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KloppOfTheWorld View Post
    Have we not smashed our rivals to see them bounce back? - which we have since the Spurs game!

    If you want to isolate 2 poor performances against 2 high quality sides; the 1st we were ARGUABLY the better side until we went 1 nil down against the run of play and then had one of our key players sent off for what many of the players at the time felt unjust so mentally were at Sea at a key stage in the game (I remember the game intimately as i was Watching it with my Son AT Anfield as part of their big screen hospitality!) and lost their heads ( inexplicably), and the other where our key Defender had such a horror show he was hooked within half an hour but in the 2nd half the Spurs Keeper had a great game to keep us out (albeit the damage was already done) as a reason to give a sarcastic reply regarding positives then you truly expose yourself to the type of fan you are.

    But then again maybe you were one of those embarrassingly saying that we could win the league at the beginning of the Season.
    Er...no that wouldnt have been me. I would go as far to say that unless Klopp addresses the hideous inbalance in our team we will never win the PL under him (as indeed Arsenal wont under Wenger).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Can't defend View Post
    no because our back four and keeper apart from Clyne are at full strength and are costing us points almost weekly with brain fart moments and are not learning from it
    Its a lack of a defensive MF which is harmiong us far more than defensive personnel or even GK. Although i would personally jettison Moreno/Lovren and Mignolet.
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    Lallana will improve attack and defence. We defend high up the pitch and Lallana drives that better than anyone. He also moved the ball quicker and doesn't give it away as much as Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum etc.

    However, with Lovren and mignolet at the back we will always struggle. Not signing 2 Centre backs on the summer cost us a title shot. Everyone knows that but it doesn't make it less painful. Watching Maguire play for Leicester and England shows what 17m gets you and I cannot believe we didn't pay that even for a short term fix.

    I only hope we get Van Dijk in January but have my doubts.
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    I think the reason people are cautious or concerned is that we haven't addressed the fundamental and glaring issues that everyone knew were there - in fact if anything they've got worse this season.

    It's good news that we're still in a decent position given the injuries and the disruption around Phil etc. and I'm particularly encouraged by the fact that Klopp actually adapted his tactics to be a bit more solid in the west ham game. That's really the first sign we've had that he's prepared to change things up, rather than just put all the defensive vulnerabilities down to concentration.

    I do think we can get a lot better and our attacking options could be terrifying if we can ever get everyone fit, but it still feels like to knock one of Spurs, United or Chelsea out of the top 4 then something seriously big needs to change defensively, even if the gap at the moment is still manageable.
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  27. #27  
    TheSoundLady is online now Optimistic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    I don't really understand most of the negativity, I feel very positive, I think we have the best manager we could possibly have, going strong in the Champions League, and I think we'll qualify for next year's Champions League too. Last year Chelsea had their token perfect season, this year will be City's. Next year hopefully we will be in a position to compete for a title, but for the time being, we are doing far better than we have done for over a decade and I'm delighted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    I don't really understand most of the negativity, I feel very positive, I think we have the best manager we could possibly have, going strong in the Champions League, and I think we'll qualify for next year's Champions League too. Last year Chelsea had their token perfect season, this year will be City's. Next year hopefully we will be in a position to compete for a title, but for the time being, we are doing far better than we have done for over a decade and I'm delighted.
    This exactly
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    We're always just around the corner from another defensive calamity as we haven't addressed our weaknesses.

    As a result, we will most likely scrape 4th place at best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    I don't really understand most of the negativity, I feel very positive, I think we have the best manager we could possibly have, going strong in the Champions League, and I think we'll qualify for next year's Champions League too. Last year Chelsea had their token perfect season, this year will be City's. Next year hopefully we will be in a position to compete for a title, but for the time being, we are doing far better than we have done for over a decade and I'm delighted.
    i'm more positive than negative but to be honest it's been swaying from one extreme to another, if we keep a few more clean sheets i'll be a lot happier
    Eagle Face Moron
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