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Thread: Jurgen Klopp is 100% responsible for this season

  1. #31  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    Nope. They were on 24 points after 12 PL games last season.

    On Conte, wasn't his job on the line after six games last season?
    Football is being played outside of Premier League too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurreyLiverpoolFan1983 View Post
    not allowed to say a bad word against Klopp mate not stylish

    been saying it for months, but keep getting slated for it

    bad transfer window, bad tactics and a massive fall in running stats = manager has lost players trust in his methods

    if the players aren't even running for him which is his prime tactic, they've given up
    He has to upset his best mates loverrn moreno mignolet klavan and tell them there not good enough to be here.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    i'm not too disappointed by our results in the PL even though they have been frustrating but failure to beat spartak and sevilla has really got to me
    Exactly, I'm aiming at recurrent patterns of our game. They are not accidents or isolated events. Coutinho last night was not great, but that's an isolated event. While some players do the same thing 85% of their Liverpool career.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    Football is being played outside of Premier League too.
    Indeed. In Europe, Spurs are fairing better than last season. In the PL however, they are not. They're one point worse off in fact. So the records aren't identical.

    Focusing on Liverpool and ignoring the PL, we weren't even in Europe last season. And we're on the cusp of topping our group and qualifying into the next round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomHighwaysM16 View Post
    Ha, well, if a player is giving you 100% for few years and that's not what you are happy with, maybe it's not the player's fault? Your view suffers from the same issue like Klopp's view - blind trust that some players can improve with time or they are good enough. If a player is not good enough over longer period and he is not very young, there is very little you can do except replacing him with the one that is. On time preferably.

    Henderson and Wijnaldum are playing like this for years. That only means Klopp is happy with them or he has gone bonkers.
    At no stage have I said we should keep faith with poor players. Itís weird how people on here quote posts but their reply has zero to do with what you write. Not sure why people do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomHighwaysM16 View Post
    Exactly, I'm aiming at recurrent patterns of our game. They are not accidents or isolated events. Coutinho last night was not great, but that's an isolated event. While some players do the same thing 85% of their Liverpool career.
    agreed, a lot of people keep going on about the system etc and yes there are flaws no denying it but if klopp is ruthless and buys in players to replace hendo,moreno and lovren , we're probably sitting here talking about winning the group after 4 games and having not dropped points to newcastle, burnley and co.

    the job he is doing with the current team isn't a bad one it's pretty good but he's the manager he needs to be ruthless and make sure we're far further along in our progression than we currently are, that is what is really killing me.
    Eagle Face Moron
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    TomHighwaysM16 is offline Academy prospect
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    And to be frank, while I can have some sympathy for the manager inside the Premier League with all the money and concentration of quality, cruising in Europe group stages is something we should be doing. Just consider the resource disparity between us and other teams in the group.

    Transfermarkt values

    Liverpool - 514 million euros.
    Seville - 229.75 million euros.
    Spartak Moscow - 106.7 million euros.

    I'll not bother looking up Maribor. But you get the picture.
    Last edited by TomHighwaysM16; 22-11-17 at 10:51.
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    A bit of perspective is needed...just as the previous few games had not eradicated all our weaknesses, last night hasn't exposed any new ones either. The same weaknesses and failings are alive and well and will surface every few games and kill us.

    The manager, while he can't control individual mistakes, is ultimately responsible for performance levels and game management.

    We've talked about the personnel, the individual mistakes, the collective weaknesses, the poor game management, the fragile mentality, the failure to address the issues etc etc...and all of these are major contributors. We think we see improvements across all of these, then bang...they blow up in your face again. One step forward, two back. You will never reach your destination.

    Most concerning of all is our touch button capacity to capitulate completely when the heat comes on. We saw it v City, v Spurs, last night. We saw it several times last season. We saw it back 18 months ago v Sevilla.

    Its like we have no defence mechanism, no coping mechanism to withstand pressure. Once we get nervy it quickly turns to full blown panic, we lose all shape and composure, then total meltdown. No cool heads to calm things down. No one to put their foot on the ball to take the heat out of the game. No warriors to do whatever is necessary to manage the game out, to dig in. Basically no leadership.

    Its often said that a team reflects the image of its manager, or has the same characteristics. If this is the case here (and I'm not saying it is) then we have even deeper problems.

    The Spartak game now becomes a nerve fest. The longer they stay in the game, the edgier we become and we know the almost inevitable outcome when that happens. We could blow them away early and close the game out sensibly. But we're not great at that. Or we could play cautiously knowing a point is enough and manage the game sensibly. We're not good at that either.

    Either way it will be stressful, take your pick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomHighwaysM16 View Post
    And to be frank, while I can have some sympathy for the manager inside the Premier League with all the money and concentration of quality, cruising in Europe group stages is something we should be doing. Just consider the resource disparity between us and other teams in the group.

    Transfermarkt values

    Liverpool - 514 million euros.
    Seville - 229.75 million euros.
    Spartak Moscow - 106.7 million euros.

    I'll not bother looking up Maribor. But you get the picture.
    I don't personally get the picture. Sevilla are a very good team, and have a great record against us recently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanMrMustard View Post
    A bit of perspective is needed...just as the previous few games had not eradicated all our weaknesses, last night hasn't exposed any new ones either. The same weaknesses and failings are alive and well and will surface every few games and kill us.

    The manager, while he can't control individual mistakes, is ultimately responsible for performance levels and game management.

    We've talked about the personnel, the individual mistakes, the collective weaknesses, the poor game management, the fragile mentality, the failure to address the issues etc etc...and all of these are major contributors. We think we see improvements across all of these, then bang...they blow up in your face again. One step forward, two back. You will never reach your destination.

    Most concerning of all is our touch button capacity to capitulate completely when the heat comes on. We saw it v City, v Spurs, last night. We saw it several times last season. We saw it back 18 months ago v Sevilla.

    Its like we have no defence mechanism, no coping mechanism to withstand pressure. Once we get nervy it quickly turns to full blown panic, we lose all shape and composure, then total meltdown. No cool heads to calm things down. No one to put their foot on the ball to take the heat out of the game. No warriors to do whatever is necessary to manage the game out, to dig in. Basically no leadership.

    Its often said that a team reflects the image of its manager, or has the same characteristics. If this is the case here (and I'm not saying it is) then we have even deeper problems.

    The Spartak game now becomes a nerve fest. The longer they stay in the game, the edgier we become and we know the almost inevitable outcome when that happens. We could blow them away early and close the game out sensibly. But we're not great at that. Or we could play cautiously knowing a point is enough and manage the game sensibly. We're not good at that either.

    Either way it will be stressful, take your pick.
    its the mental side of the game that we clearly struggle with , inability to compose ourselves and think clearly, lovren and moreno just can't cope
    Eagle Face Moron
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    i've criticised klopp earlier on in the season and to be fair he made slight tweaks for recent games and we've had good results a lot of the klopp out brigade forget that.

    just answer one question, if moreno doesn't lose his mind and literally hand sevilla a way back into the game last night, do you think we'd be sitting talking about flinging a 3 goal lead away? i highly doubt it
    Exactly mate, but some donít want to listen to reason, thereís no happy medium...... great when we win but klopp our when we draw away to a very difficult opponent
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    we were far from in control of the game even in the 1st half

    Seville were rubbish yet still managed to created 3 nailed on chances - that itself is a huge worry

    So when Seville picked up there level and started to play well, it was no surprise they managed to score, they nearly scored 3 by playing awful

    its a symptom of our whole season, teams do not need to play well to score or even draw/win against us - again that is a huge worry

    There are so many reasons, but for me, its the fact we play the game to score with every attack, we try to kill teams when we don't need to, we were 3-0 up away from home and qualified

    we were still throwing men suicidal up field leaving gaps - widjnaldum was in the corner flag making tackles, missed the tackle and then Seville were behind our midfield line - that happened time and time again - that applies to Hendo also, Moreno charging into midfield leaving the huge gap behind him

    Neither manager or players thought that clock management was needed - pass the ball for 10 mins, and stifle the game, get to 65 minutes with men behind the ball, no gaps - the way PROPER teams game manage situations

    We tried to win 5/6-0 when it just wasn't needed

    We don't have the players, manager, intelligence or guts to sit on the 3-0 and say right keep tight, tackle hard, win the ball, pass it simple

    its crazy and sadly people who think we will win anything under Klopp this way, are very wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    its the mental side of the game that we clearly struggle with , inability to compose ourselves and think clearly, lovren and moreno just can't cope
    Lovren was good last night.
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    Finishing outside the top 4 with no trophies should see him sacked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simply Roy View Post
    Lovren was good last night.
    last night he was, but im talking about in other sitautions , once they are tested they really do struggle to cope
    Eagle Face Moron
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    So far he's not doing his job properly. He actively has to change the way he's managing the team.
    His game management last night was disgusting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHIL. View Post
    Finishing outside the top 4 with no trophies should see him sacked.
    I said this when we were recording last night's podcast (tune in!). If we go out of the CL at this stage, that'll be the last straw for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    The only team we've beaten since we qualified is Maribor. Now unless we add Spartak to that list we either finish second or go out completely. It's just not good enough.
    Confident we will win the group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHIL. View Post
    Finishing outside the top 4 with no trophies should see him sacked.
    Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHIL. View Post
    Finishing outside the top 4 with no trophies should see him sacked.
    he'll get next year because keita is coming
    Eagle Face Moron
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  21. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by klopp in View Post
    Confident we will win the group.
    On paper we really should. But that papers over some very big cracks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    I said this when we were recording last night's podcast (tune in!). If we go out of the CL at this stage, that'll be the last straw for me.
    Ditto.

    I'm fuming this morning. What a shambles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    he'll get next year because keita is coming
    Keita on his own won't be enough, and Klopp's putting his job further on the line unless he realises that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurreyLiverpoolFan1983 View Post
    not allowed to say a bad word against Klopp mate not stylish

    been saying it for months, but keep getting slated for it

    bad transfer window, bad tactics and a massive fall in running stats = manager has lost players trust in his methods

    if the players aren't even running for him which is his prime tactic, they've given up
    Sorry SurreyLiverpoolFan1983, I dont often respond so curtly but thats a load of crap!
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    Quote Originally Posted by -SP7- View Post
    Really?
    Yes.

    What has he done to keep his job so far?

    He decided not to strengthen key areas in the summer. If you're making a big call like that - and everyone knows we're crap in those areas - then you have to justify it in some way. I see zero evidence of any improvement in that regard. We are still making individual errors regularly, we have a team full of bottlers, a captain that should be nowhere near the first 11 of a team with high ambitions, and no evidence of any improvement through training.

    Add to that his terrible in game management, decisions to spend money on players who can't get a look in, and the Brendan-esque soundbites littering his interviews, and it's not looking good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    Keita on his own won't be enough, and Klopp's putting his job further on the line unless he realises that.
    i agree with that
    Eagle Face Moron
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuatreVingt16 View Post
    Sorry SurreyLiverpoolFan1983, I dont often respond so curtly but thats a load of crap!
    Running wasn't our problem last night. In fact, if anything we need someone whose game plan isn't just to run around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    he'll get next year because keita is coming
    And so he should....... talking about sacking him is pathetic....... but hey itís the modern day football fan for you
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    Quote Originally Posted by redeyes77 View Post
    And so he should....... talking about sacking him is pathetic....... but hey itís the modern day football fan for you
    i know mate, every defeat is a disaster for some.
    Eagle Face Moron
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    Running wasn't our problem last night. In fact, if anything we need someone whose game plan isn't just to run around.
    but that's the point - Klopp's tactic is running based (not saying its right or wrong) closing space ect

    when the running stats drop and those spaces aren't being closed - what exactly is left?

    your left with a manager and tactic which is broken and when you do not adjust, your just giving up really

    that's where we sit right now - a manager and tactic which slowly is becoming redundant

    that's where you adjust, re-assess - I have yet to see this and worry he refuses to adjust and leaves us with many of these performances
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