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Thread: Star Wars The Last Jedi. *Spoilers*

  1. #61  
    MiraclesArePossible is online now Boot Room insider
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    The line from Revenge of the Sith was that Obi Wan had the high ground, therefore the fight was already over. Which annoyed Star Wars fans no end because, while it was an obvious advantage, it by no means meant that the fight was done and dusted.


    In any case, thought this latest film was just ok. Some brilliant moments that were punctuated by awfulness. The casino planet was dull, and the scene with Leia flying through space had me muttering "**** right off" under my breath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    The line from Revenge of the Sith was that Obi Wan had the high ground, therefore the fight was already over. Which annoyed Star Wars fans no end because, while it was an obvious advantage, it by no means meant that the fight was done and dusted.
    It wasn't explained at all in the film, but Kenobi knew the fight was over.

    Anakin is virtually unbeatable, but he had never beaten Kenobi whilst the latter had even a slight height advantage.

    Poor film making, some throwaway line during a practice session would have been sufficient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Not.....the force projection!?

    That old trick...they just made up for this film for some reason

    All those years of the force and it turns out the Jedi's or Sith's never needed to be physically there for any fights, they could have just projected themselves.....but still they went just for the love of sabre to sabre fighting
    You could say the same for the moment The Emperor shot bolts of lightning out of his fingers. That had no precedent in the previous two films; it simply served to expand the point that being more powerful, the Emperor was able to access other powers. I didnít have a problem with the direct projection bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Ahhhhh, so I mixed up martial arts with fictional Jedi's who used a lot of martial arts guidance from earthlings historically speaking?
    Art of War my friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Not.....the force projection!?

    That old trick...they just made up for this film for some reason

    All those years of the force and it turns out the Jedi's or Sith's never needed to be physically there for any fights, they could have just projected themselves.....but still they went just for the love of sabre to sabre fighting
    This is my point if you read a lot of what people are saying about the comics the books and so forth

    Martial arts training was a major part of Jedi Sith lords and the imperial red guard training

    It all about channeling the force to make the body more in tune and to make the body more tougher and so on

    Which was never explained in the films
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    It wasn't explained at all in the film, but Kenobi knew the fight was over.

    Anakin is virtually unbeatable, but he had never beaten Kenobi whilst the latter had even a slight height advantage.

    Poor film making, some throwaway line during a practice session would have been sufficient.
    That probably would have done it aye

    The biggest problem with those prequels was Anakin getting his arse kicked every film, he was awful in spite of the legend which ruined to a degree all the stories we knew and loved of Darth, the mystery and aura around him was all unseen and just felt, watching him lose most of his body parts across various fights and getting his arse kicked ruined that.

    Quote Originally Posted by God'sLeftFoot View Post
    You could say the same for the moment The Emperor shot bolts of lightning out of his fingers. That had no precedent in the previous two films; it simply served to expand the point that being more powerful, the Emperor was able to access other powers. I didnít have a problem with the direct projection bit.
    Different gravity of problem for me, know what you mean but Jedi's being able to project themselves is quite some jump really.

    It could be just as a kid you accept these things with great affection, as an adult, I think oh **** off that's awful story telling. Such dramatic changes in the powers they have after all this time doesn't help with consistency.

    I take it all with a pinch of salt and most films are good for a laugh at, good or bad, and this had some bad bits in that don't need rationalising as such, they were just quite funny and a bit dodgy

    Like MAP's Leia flying through space, that was too funny to ignore
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenyanstar View Post
    Snoke is still alive. He was using a force projection (just like Luke).
    In the force awakens book it says this ďFew have ever seen Snoke in the flesh. He obscures himself with distance, being forever unreachable save for a select few who can contact him directly. EVEN UNDER SUCH circumstances, Snoke disguises his true nature." Personally I think the next episode starts with Snoke, it will finish with Rey and Ren fighting snoke. That would be cool. Rey V Ren would be boring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Not.....the force projection!?

    That old trick...they just made up for this film for some reason

    All those years of the force and it turns out the Jedi's or Sith's never needed to be physically there for any fights, they could have just projected themselves.....but still they went just for the love of sabre to sabre fighting
    No you canít physically do anything when force projecting so they couldnít have fought however, we seen snoke use the force on that fella when he wasnít even on the ship (sort of like Vader using force choke but much more powerful). Itís possible that Snoke uses force projection and uses the force to manipulate objects whilst he isnít even there, he then is controlling his body with the force so he can make it appear that he has been chopped in two. He also says that he was allowing Ren and Rey to speak to each other via the force which happens after his death. If the reveal is that Snoke is Plagueis this could be an explanation as to how he bested Palpatine. Knowing his apprentice would assasinate him so faking his death. The music in each Snoke scene is nearly the same as when Palpatine tells Anakin about Plagueis. If they have built this character up to purely get sliced in half then they can **** off
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    No you can’t physically do anything when force projecting so they couldn’t have fought however, we seen snoke use the force on that fella when he wasn’t even on the ship (sort of like Vader using force choke but much more powerful). It’s possible that Snoke uses force projection and uses the force to manipulate objects whilst he isn’t even there, he then is controlling his body with the force so he can make it appear that he has been chopped in two. He also says that he was allowing Ren and Rey to speak to each other via the force which happens after his death. If the reveal is that Snoke is Plagueis this could be an explanation as to how he bested Palpatine. Knowing his apprentice would assasinate him so faking his death. The music in each Snoke scene is nearly the same as when Palpatine tells Anakin about Plagueis. If they have built this character up to purely get sliced in half then they can **** off
    It would be a kick in the balls

    I'm hoping your scenarios play out for the third instalment as that would be much more interesting

    I'll watch this one again perhaps in the meantime
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    It wasn't explained at all in the film, but Kenobi knew the fight was over.

    Anakin is virtually unbeatable, but he had never beaten Kenobi whilst the latter had even a slight height advantage.

    Poor film making, some throwaway line during a practice session would have been sufficient.
    They could have made that point better. As a piece of dialogue it was atrocious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    It would be a kick in the balls

    I'm hoping your scenarios play out for the third instalment as that would be much more interesting

    I'll watch this one again perhaps in the meantime
    Imagine watching a New Hope seeing Vader and thinking wow he is powerful. Then ESB, Chewbacca just shoots him on the sly and he dies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraclesArePossible View Post
    They could have made that point better. As a piece of dialogue it was atrocious.
    Aye that's what I meant really, the way it was clumsily lobbed into that whole scene and epic fight was just bad

    These latest films at least are better than those by some distance and have enough moments to enjoy
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    Imagine watching a New Hope seeing Vader and thinking wow he is powerful. Then ESB, Chewbacca just shoots him on the sly and he dies.
    I think I would pay to see that for comedy effect purely.

    Or worse still, C3PO and R2D2 are shot down in the escape pod at the start of New Hope, boom, the plans and them gone. Rebellion over, end entire saga in 2 mins
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Aye that's what I meant really, the way it was clumsily lobbed into that whole scene and epic fight was just bad
    It was, maybe that's a cut scene which foreshadowed it, don't know. Either way it seems they thought people would just know and accept that height is an advantage in combat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    In the force awakens book it says this ďFew have ever seen Snoke in the flesh. He obscures himself with distance, being forever unreachable save for a select few who can contact him directly. EVEN UNDER SUCH circumstances, Snoke disguises his true nature." Personally I think the next episode starts with Snoke, it will finish with Rey and Ren fighting snoke. That would be cool. Rey V Ren would be boring.


    I think he's done, personally. The death looked pretty final to me. From a character development point of view, it would completely undermine Kylo Ren as well if it was all a big show/force projection. He's done what most couldn't do, and that's overthrow the master. Vader, Dooku, Maul, Bane etc all famous Sith Lords who couldn't do it. Kylo has done what the Emperor did. He also killed his father in the last film, tried to kill his uncle and mentor before that and was a button away from blowing up his Mother. He's the real deal as far as I'm concerned.

    I was thinking about this last night and it's clear to me Disney have done some very clever marketing with Snoke. Talked up as the new 'big-bad' 'Emperor' etc etc..... when in reality he was just a loose character served for nothing more than developing Ren's character further.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plan-D View Post
    I think he's done, personally. The death looked pretty final to me. From a character development point of view, it would completely undermine Kylo Ren as well if it was all a big show/force projection. He's done what most couldn't do, and that's overthrow the master. Vader, Dooku, Maul, Bane etc all famous Sith Lords who couldn't do it. Kylo has done what the Emperor did. He also killed his father in the last film, tried to kill his uncle and mentor before that and was a button away from blowing up his Mother. He's the real deal as far as I'm concerned.

    I was thinking about this last night and it's clear to me Disney have done some very clever marketing with Snoke. Talked up as the new 'big-bad' 'Emperor' etc etc..... when in reality he was just a loose character served for nothing more than developing Ren's character further.
    If Ren is the big bad in episode nine, I don't think I'll ever watch a Star Wars film again
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    Duplicate
    Last edited by dookar; 19-12-17 at 17:29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    If Ren is the big bad in episode nine, I don't think I'll ever watch a Star Wars film again
    Me too. He has shown that he was willing to spare Leia(seriously the amount of times they could have respectably killed her character off and she escaped death is so weird). He has been bested by Rey. He was tricked by Luke. In fact, have we seen him win anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    If Ren is the big bad in episode nine, I don't think I'll ever watch a Star Wars film again
    Haha, I totally get what you mean there. I like the character and the actor himself in all of it, but he isn't a 'big-bad'. He's a bit of an enigma really at this stage. For me it seemed 'natural' for his redemption in IX and I believe that's what Abrams had in mind but I'm just wondering with the events of The Last Jedi if that's possible now. Rian Johnson has really left Abrams with a lot of work to do here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    Me too. He has shown that he was willing to spare Leia(seriously the amount of times they could have respectably killed her character off and she escaped death is so weird). He has been bested by Rey. He was tricked by Luke. In fact, have we seen him win anything?
    He's a Force sensitive Kevin the Teenager.

    I can forgive him being tricked by the most powerful Jedi ever to have lived, for all we know Luke may have discovered Force projection. But to be beaten by an untrained girl who just a little earlier thought Jedi, the Force etc were myth? Do me a favour.

    Plus he's just not in the slightest bit interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    Me too. He has shown that he was willing to spare Leia(seriously the amount of times they could have respectably killed her character off and she escaped death is so weird). He has been bested by Rey. He was tricked by Luke. In fact, have we seen him win anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Best helmet hair?
    Moodiest Sulk?
    Most impractical Lightsabre?


    He wins that hands down
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    Here's the thing. For me, Snoke is dead, if he isn't, then the entire shot of him like a goat with his tongue out as he was sliced in half somewhat delegitimises his power. They made a comedic scene out of what should have been a dramatic moment. I don't think he'll be back in the next one and people speculating that he will just really want to find some little justification as to why they butchered his character like this.

    Regarding Ren, he should not be the main villain, had they built him up then maybe. Had the movie started with Ren looking menacing and powerful having completed all of his training under Snoke then him killing Snoke and being the main villain would have made more sense. They really really dropped the ball with this movie, they failed to build up the new characters whilst killing off the old ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SliceOfLife View Post
    Here's the thing. For me, Snoke is dead, if he isn't, then the entire shot of him like a goat with his tongue out as he was sliced in half somewhat delegitimises his power. They made a comedic scene out of what should have been a dramatic moment. I don't think he'll be back in the next one and people speculating that he will just really want to find some little justification as to why they butchered his character like this.

    Regarding Ren, he should not be the main villain, had they built him up then maybe. Had the movie started with Ren looking menacing and powerful having completed all of his training under Snoke then him killing Snoke and being the main villain would have made more sense. They really really dropped the ball with this movie, they failed to build up the new characters whilst killing off the old ones.
    Its a fair summary that for me, those keys points cover why it just didn't work for me

    Oh and Leia flying hand aloft in space was pushing it a tad
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Its a fair summary that for me, those keys points cover why it just didn't work for me

    Oh and Leia flying hand aloft in space was pushing it a tad
    This scene. When I watched it, I thought wow, they zoomed in on Carrie Fishers face as they killed her off that was abit mad. Then she was dead floating in space and I was thinking come on leave her alone she’s actually dead in real life this is getting weird. Then, her ****** eyes opened and I nearly fell out my seat. THEN when she starts floating towards the ship and stays alive, I wanted to just leave the pictures and never have anything to do with Star Wars ever again. Hands down, the weirdest and worst thing I’ve ever seen in the pictures, and I went to see the snowman this year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_7 View Post
    This scene. When I watched it, I thought wow, they zoomed in on Carrie Fishers face as they killed her off that was abit mad. Then she was dead floating in space and I was thinking come on leave her alone she’s actually dead in real life this is getting weird. Then, her ****** eyes opened and I nearly fell out my seat. THEN when she starts floating towards the ship and stays alive, I wanted to just leave the pictures and never have anything to do with Star Wars ever again. Hands down, the weirdest and worst thing I’ve ever seen in the pictures, and I went to see the snowman this year.
    Beautifully retold, gave me a giggle that, especially in bold

    It was bizarre, that and the underwhelming reaction by the remaining rebellion crews who pick her up.

    They should have been, "Holy ****, she survived!? The only survivor on the ship, how in the ****?

    Rescue crew: "You should have ****** seen it, she was out there, our floating dead leader, our hopes of the rebellion dead with her. Then she....then.....she...well she woke up again and ****** flew through the ravages of space right back to the ship, hand aloft like some super celestial being. I mean.....****! Just.....****! I need a moment guys, I'm hyperventilating, I'm literally awestruck."

    Others: "She what now? Flew? ****! **** that Snoke guy from Harry Potter, we have a flying Leia who doesn't need air or any of the fundamental particles surrounding her that allow the rest of us to live. We can't lose."

    Mass celebrations ensue
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Beautifully retold, gave me a giggle that, especially in bold

    It was bizarre, that and the underwhelming reaction by the remaining rebellion crews who pick her up.

    They should have been, "Holy ****, she survived!? The only survivor on the ship, how in the ****?

    Rescue crew: "You should have ****** seen it, she was out there, our floating dead leader, our hopes of the rebellion dead with her. Then she....then.....she...well she woke up again and ****** flew through the ravages of space right back to the ship, hand aloft like some super celestial being. I mean.....****! Just.....****! I need a moment guys, I'm hyperventilating, I'm literally awestruck."

    Others: "She what now? Flew? ****! **** that Snoke guy from Harry Potter, we have a flying Leia who doesn't need air or any of the fundamental particles surrounding her that allow the rest of us to live. We can't lose."

    Mass celebrations ensue
    Not very "Disney", all that cursing.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Not very "Disney", all that cursing.
    It might need some editing granted, they could say stuff like 'Jeezum' and 'Holy crow!'
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    Very disappointed in this film being a Star Wars fan. Dialogue and acting terrible. Need to bring back Ronaldinho (Ja Ja Binks).
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    Well I loved it!!! Just saying.
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