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Thread: Coutinho - Signs for Barca - 142 million

  1. #751  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Pretty much most news sources have said he paid 11.5m to join. So unless they are all collectively wrong, I think chances are there is definitely something in it. Nor has coutinho denied it.

    Also Gerrard and klopp have both said the club did everything to try and keep him. So this prearranged thing you mention holds no weight.

    He has been desperate to join for a while but clearly something tipped him over.

    As I said;
    £11.5m financially. So no money would make him stay
    Champions league sacrificed so even that was not making him stay
    Klopp signing vvd and the club in the top four currently also not good enough for him.

    So if despite all this, I think it's fair for klopp to be given the chance to say thanks Phil, but its time to move on.
    No, proof that was the case - not that it matters too much.

    The rest is no surprise as everyone knew he wanted to go.

    And of course Klopp should be given the choice of who stays and who goes and when.

    That doesn't mean to say I have to agree the timing was right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Pretty much most news sources have said he paid 11.5m to join. So unless they are all collectively wrong, I think chances are there is definitely something in it. Nor has coutinho denied it.

    Also Gerrard and klopp have both said the club did everything to try and keep him. So this prearranged thing you mention holds no weight.

    He has been desperate to join for a while but clearly something tipped him over.

    As I said;
    £11.5m financially. So no money would make him stay
    Champions league sacrificed so even that was not making him stay
    Klopp signing vvd and the club in the top four currently also not good enough for him.

    So if despite all this, I think it's fair for klopp to be given the chance to say thanks Phil, but its time to move on.
    I have followed this debacle very closely and have not read anywhere that Coutinho paid £11m out of his own pocket? Where did you read that? Anyway that is beside the point. I stand by my previous comments #736; the club held all the cards, they just capitulated. Sure everyone and their cat knew he was going in the summer, a situation that would have been acceptable to LFC (at the right price), Barcelona (grudgingly) and Coutinho when it actually came down to it. LFC had nothing to lose and everything to gain. So Phil would have had a sulk, boohoo. He would have trained on his own (his loss), would not celebrate a goal (big deal) been a bit of an out-cast (again his loss), jeopardised his chances with Brazil (a very big loss for him). What would LFC have lost? Nothing except a player who would possibly play at 85% of his ability, which even then is far more that most of the squad, if he indeed was selected. Not being selected and made to sit on the bench game after game would have been torture to him. I suggest Klopp never plays poker because if he held anything less than 3 Aces and a King he would fold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    I think there's a good chance that it's the reason that's the case.

    No issue with him leaving, whoever's choice it was, just the timing.

    Could a promise have been made that he could go in the summer? Why not.
    Dunno, but I would assume someone might have thought of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Dunno, but I would assume someone might have thought of that.
    I'm sure they thought we could manage without him from here on in and maybe they're right. I think it's a risk we chose to make but didn't have to though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert-Hall View Post
    I have followed this debacle very closely and have not read anywhere that Coutinho paid £11m out of his own pocket? Where did you read that? Anyway that is beside the point. I stand by my previous comments #736; the club held all the cards, they just capitulated. Sure everyone and their cat knew he was going in the summer, a situation that would have been acceptable to LFC (at the right price), Barcelona (grudgingly) and Coutinho when it actually came down to it. LFC had nothing to lose and everything to gain. So Phil would have had a sulk, boohoo. He would have trained on his own (his loss), would not celebrate a goal (big deal) been a bit of an out-cast (again his loss), jeopardised his chances with Brazil (a very big loss for him). What would LFC have lost? Nothing except a player who would possibly play at 85% of his ability, which even then is far more that most of the squad, if he indeed was selected. Not being selected and made to sit on the bench game after game would have been torture to him. I suggest Klopp never plays poker because if he held anything less than 3 Aces and a King he would fold.
    "Philippe, welcome. We know that you have made a personal and economic effort," he added. "In the last months we have dreamed of this moment, we wish you the best, which is the best for all."

    From Barcelona vice president.

    How much more do you need?

    Also if phils at 85 percent, we have seen how he does play when he's coming back from injury. Often takes him many games to get in the flow.

    Having a poorer coutinho on and off the pitch would reduce his price. We would still be paying his 150k a week wages. Damages the morale in the group and risks our season further.

    I highly doubt much of the other players would even appreciate a player who gave five years and a British transfer record fee denied the chance to leave when he and his family are so desperate for.

    We have seen even top managers like mourinho lose the dressing room at Madrid and Chelsea. We can't risk that especially as we don't have the finances of other clubs.

    Effectively we kept cout for 6 months longer than he wanted to be here and got a better fee than the summer.

    I fully back klopp on this one. Makes sense.

    Whereas on one hand you have vvd who rejected Chelsea to join us to play for klopp. Same goes for ox. That's the kind of spirit you want at the club. Klopps worked hard to get this feel good factor at the club. Why would he want to ruin it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert-Hall View Post
    I have followed this debacle very closely and have not read anywhere that Coutinho paid £11m out of his own pocket? Where did you read that? Anyway that is beside the point. I stand by my previous comments #736; the club held all the cards, they just capitulated. Sure everyone and their cat knew he was going in the summer, a situation that would have been acceptable to LFC (at the right price), Barcelona (grudgingly) and Coutinho when it actually came down to it. LFC had nothing to lose and everything to gain. So Phil would have had a sulk, boohoo. He would have trained on his own (his loss), would not celebrate a goal (big deal) been a bit of an out-cast (again his loss), jeopardised his chances with Brazil (a very big loss for him). What would LFC have lost? Nothing except a player who would possibly play at 85% of his ability, which even then is far more that most of the squad, if he indeed was selected. Not being selected and made to sit on the bench game after game would have been torture to him. I suggest Klopp never plays poker because if he held anything less than 3 Aces and a King he would fold.
    If you have ever managed a team in any industry, then you know one unhappy person brings chaos to the team.
    I've been there.
    I'm experiencing it right now.

    Klopp made the right decision. For the team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Dunno, but I would assume someone might have thought of that.
    Pretty much. The club tried everything according to klopp and stevie. I'm sure this would have been on the table like it was with suarez.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanBro View Post
    If you have ever managed a team in any industry, then you know one unhappy person brings chaos to the team.
    I've been there.
    I'm experiencing it right now.

    Klopp made the right decision. For the team.

    Pretty much.

    And for me, regardless of all of this, if klopp wants to cash in so he can utilise the funds, that his choice! He's spent really well since he's been here so deserves the time to be given the chance to seel and buy who he likes!
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    Last edited by ***Stuzzza***; 13-1-18 at 16:02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Pretty much.

    And for me, regardless of all of this, if klopp wants to cash in so he can utilise the funds, that his choice! He's spent really well since he's been here so deserves the time to be given the chance to seel and buy who he likes!
    And that's what he's done. No problem with that, never have had, because that's how it should be.

    Was the timing right, not for me. Has it been a deal sorted out a while back, yes I think so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Who do you think made the decision to let him leave? And what do you think was behind their thinking?
    That’s a good question.

    Was the decision made months ago? The deal happened quite quickly. You’d hope it was Klopps call, but he did mention in previous interviews that the ultimate decision was out of his hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    And that's what he's done. No problem with that, never have had, because that's how it should be.

    Was the timing right, not for me. Has it been a deal sorted out a while back, yes I think so.
    If that was the case, I don't think the club would be trying to convince him to stay.
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    I don't think he will be a great loss, shoehorned into the side anyway.
    "The better you get at this job, the more dangerous it becomes"
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    If that was the case, I don't think the club would be trying to convince him to stay.
    You don't think the 'we tried to convince him to stay' could have referred to efforts that were made in the summer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    You don't think the 'we tried to convince him to stay' could have referred to efforts that were made in the summer?
    No I think the club would have made continued efforts. Especially with the CL to come too. Rumours of being offered the captaincy too.

    In the end the gaffer felt the best move was to cash in. Fair enough.

    As you say you don't begrudge klopp for selling him, just the timing. If klopp felt the timing was right where he got 6 months longer out of him rather than us selling him in the summer gone, then that's his call.

    So far he's been really good with transfers and team cohesion so we can't knock him for it.
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  16. #766  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    You don't think the 'we tried to convince him to stay' could have referred to efforts that were made in the summer?
    He said quite clearly yesterday that he and the club did everything to make him stay, but unlike after the summer when Phil gave every thing, there was a moment when it became clear that "phil's commitment" wasn't going to be there.

    The club clearly wanted to keep him for the whole of this season...but Phil basically said I will not be able to give my all to the cause.

    So, that, was rightly, that.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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    I want to reiterate a point I made previously regarding the use of the Coutinho cash. There are many of our fans saying that Klopp has already spent half of it on Van Dijk. Well we've got it from the horse's mouth that, that is not the case. He has the full use of said funds for when he decides to spend it and whom he wants to spend it on

    Such comments are an obvious dig at the owners without considering the facts. If you ask me they are unwarranted too. If the manager says he has full use of the funds, then he has full use of the funds. There is no need to analyse this further.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    I want to reiterate a point I made previously regarding the use of the Coutinho cash. There are many of our fans saying that Klopp has already spent half of it on Van Dijk. Well we've got it from the horse's mouth that, that is not the case. He has the full use of said funds for when he decides to spend it and whom he wants to spend it on

    Such comments are an obvious dig at the owners without considering the facts. If you ask me they are unwarranted too. If the manager says he has full use of the funds, then he has full use of the funds. There is no need to analyse this further.
    Until the money is spent then Klopp can say what he likes.

    The non believers will always have something to bite at until we spend big without selling.

    Proof is always in the pudding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daymo68 View Post
    Until the money is spent then Klopp can say what he likes.

    The non believers will always have something to bite at until we spend big without selling.

    Proof is always in the pudding.
    Every club sells as well as spends. I reckon this summer Klopp will sell, but only the players he wants out. I can see him spending too, and spending big, but he will take a measured and calculated approach. I cannot see that changing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daymo68 View Post
    Until the money is spent then Klopp can say what he likes.

    The non believers will always have something to bite at until we spend big without selling.

    Proof is always in the pudding.
    We will always sell. The club won't just keep adding players. Players that are surplus or don't want to be here will be sold.

    But at the same time, whether we sell or not makes little difference as the owners pump whatever is generated back in again. So selling or not selling, overall it's all the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daymo68 View Post
    Until the money is spent then Klopp can say what he likes.

    The non believers will always have something to bite at until we spend big without selling.

    Proof is always in the pudding.
    Klopp will probably not buy anyone this window. And then again he will have a plan a and b in the summer. All depending on cl football or the lack of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    He said quite clearly yesterday that he and the club did everything to make him stay, but unlike after the summer when Phil gave every thing, there was a moment when it became clear that "phil's commitment" wasn't going to be there.

    The club clearly wanted to keep him for the whole of this season...but Phil basically said I will not be able to give my all to the cause.

    So, that, was rightly, that.
    None of it really changes anything.

    We allowed him to leave when under a lengthy contract and, while I think that was ultimately the right thing to do, I can't agree that January was the right time to do it and we can't protest that 'we had no choice' because we did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    None of it really changes anything.

    We allowed him to leave when under a lengthy contract and, while I think that was ultimately the right thing to do, I can't agree that January was the right time to do it and we can't protest that 'we had no choice' because we did.
    We did have a choice.

    We had a choice to get a top fee for a player who a year ago was valued at a lot less. We got we got a British transfer record for a player that was valued at around 80m a year ago.

    We had the choice of keeping a player who was unhappy and could have badly effected the morale of the club.

    He could well have affected his own value when the summer comes.

    We can hold any player to term of contract if we want. But be sure as hell that players will think three times before signing and will ask for release clauses before joining a club that does not allow players who have given good service to leave!

    So it's two choices. I think I'll back klopp on this one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    None of it really changes anything.

    We allowed him to leave when under a lengthy contract and, while I think that was ultimately the right thing to do, I can't agree that January was the right time to do it and we can't protest that 'we had no choice' because we did.
    That is exactly my point. I was prepared as most were that he would go at the end of the season, but to allow a player to bulldoze his way out of a club mid season is wrong at so many levels. I can not believe so many people are supporting it. Obviously a discontented player can cause problems, but unlike most companies (to answer another contributor) a football club can isolate a player so the only person who feels the pain is the person causing the problem. Anyway the whole subject obviously divides contributors down the middle and neither side is going to agree, so lets agree to disagree and move on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert-Hall View Post
    That is exactly my point. I was prepared as most were that he would go at the end of the season, but to allow a player to bulldoze his way out of a club mid season is wrong at so many levels. I can not believe so many people are supporting it. Obviously a discontented player can cause problems, but unlike most companies (to answer another contributor) a football club can isolate a player so the only person who feels the pain is the person causing the problem. Anyway the whole subject obviously divides contributors down the middle and neither side is going to agree, so lets agree to disagree and move on.
    This is football. To isolate a player is cutting your nose to spite your face.

    Would be awful to pay about £4m to coutinho in wages when he's not playing and to lose the record fee we got for him and sell him for 40odd mill less. Or potentially have barca pull out altogether as they get another player instead and that ends the deal. Then we have to hope that either psg or Madrid want him. Or pray that he reintegrates back in to the side and does not strop.
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    windering why this thread concerned a non liverpool player even exists
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    I want to reiterate a point I made previously regarding the use of the Coutinho cash. There are many of our fans saying that Klopp has already spent half of it on Van Dijk. Well we've got it from the horse's mouth that, that is not the case. He has the full use of said funds for when he decides to spend it and whom he wants to spend it on

    Such comments are an obvious dig at the owners without considering the facts. If you ask me they are unwarranted too. If the manager says he has full use of the funds, then he has full use of the funds. There is no need to analyse this further.
    Stop doing that you may as well close this Forum down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    This is football. To isolate a player is cutting your nose to spite your face.

    Would be awful to pay about £4m to coutinho in wages when he's not playing and to lose the record fee we got for him and sell him for 40odd mill less. Or potentially have barca pull out altogether as they get another player instead and that ends the deal. Then we have to hope that either psg or Madrid want him. Or pray that he reintegrates back in to the side and does not strop.
    He wanted to go to Barcelona and only Barcelona. If Barcelona had lost interest in the next 4 months [which is very unlikely] he would not be interested in any other club, so a win, win situation. There is no way we would have got less for him in the summer. As for his salary, do you honestly think he would not play for the rest of the season? Don't be silly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert-Hall View Post
    He wanted to go to Barcelona and only Barcelona. If Barcelona had lost interest in the next 4 months [which is very unlikely] he would not be interested in any other club, so a win, win situation. There is no way we would have got less for him in the summer. As for his salary, do you honestly think he would not play for the rest of the season? Don't be silly.
    I think you may be a bit silly believing that, bit like Suarez saying how he loved Liverpool when he left and the only English club he would play for yet wanted to go to Arsenal, or Sanchez saying he chose Arsenal over us cos his family [funny how they always get brought into it transfer time] wanted to be in London but is now moving to Manchester, they all talk **** and I take all what they say with a pinch of salt, and never forget when any big club gets interested in a player its very much in his agents interest that the player moves.
    Last edited by davevietnam; 13-1-18 at 20:42.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    I want to reiterate a point I made previously regarding the use of the Coutinho cash. There are many of our fans saying that Klopp has already spent half of it on Van Dijk. Well we've got it from the horse's mouth that, that is not the case. He has the full use of said funds for when he decides to spend it and whom he wants to spend it on

    Such comments are an obvious dig at the owners without considering the facts. If you ask me they are unwarranted too. If the manager says he has full use of the funds, then he has full use of the funds. There is no need to analyse this further.
    I'm with you in taking Klopp at his word for this one.
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