Notices
Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 56 of 56

Thread: We’ve Run Out of Beds

  1. #31  
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    My wife works in a hospital.
    one of the reasons why the costs are high per patient is due to paper work and control, and control of control, and control of control of the control.
    they waste to much time and money on paperwork and have less and less time with patients.
    they are already understaffed and they can't hire new people because less people gets educated, it's not that they don't want to.
    Badly run then.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  2. #32  
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    17,374
    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Badly run then.
    No, its modernised
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  3. #33  
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    No, its modernised
    Badly run. Weighted down with paperwork. Most hospitals are badly run those in the know admit it.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  4. #34  
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    17,374
    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Badly run. Weighted down with paperwork. Most hospitals are badly run those in the know admit it.
    The paperwork was a political decision by liberals and conservatives in Scandinavia made on purpose to raise the costs to promote private hospitals.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  5. #35  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    27,700
    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Prevention is better than cure and seemingly cheaper.
    Yep and certainly with some conditions it is just about minimising and prevention around it, so as to avoid hospitalisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    What would the medicine industry live off and make shareholders happy with?
    Well that is a factor too I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Needs have changed. Now a lot if the operations are merely for cosmetic reasons. Also many admissions are self inflicted through bad lifestyle choices
    That's not really my meaning

    We have a bigger population, we have more elderly to care for as a bi product of that, so tried and trusted treatment or methods particularly in terms of strategic care have to change

    Non-compulsory operations are a problem, obesity related etc again could be in the field of preventative work, but other cosmetic related ops are quite subjective and I don't think would be the major contributing factor
    Last edited by welshypool; 11-1-18 at 17:27.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  6. #36  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    27,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    My wife works in a hospital.
    one of the reasons why the costs are high per patient is due to paper work and control, and control of control, and control of control of the control.
    they waste to much time and money on paperwork and have less and less time with patients.
    they are already understaffed and they can't hire new people because less people gets educated, it's not that they don't want to.
    Yes its another issue again which contributes, its also on some levels management of issues and those processes that consume too much time...and money.

    Its clear from just our posts back and forth and people chatting, that there are a number of problems that have built up over the years which all contribute to the current state
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  7. #37  
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    17,374
    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Yes its another issue again which contributes, its also on some levels management of issues and those processes that consume too much time...and money.

    Its clear from just our posts back and forth and people chatting, that there are a number of problems that have built up over the years which all contribute to the current state
    You also have a big amount of elderly former working class people who have work related illnesses so you cant actually talk about prevention
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  8. #38  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    25,286
    Quote Originally Posted by kas74 View Post
    It's the same down here,people take themselves off to A&E rather than wait three months to see their doctor.
    Rang the doctors surgery today.

    My official doctor has no appointments available until March...The other one I use is on long term sick...so I eventually got a someone who is filling in, who knows naff all about me, 7th Feb.

    Now, fair enough, I've been putting off going for months as I don't like going...and it's probably something and nothing...but the receptionist didn't ask me if it was urgent...and I could be sat here worry about the lump I'd found etc. for all she knew.

    So would you wait (if it was a lump)...or take your chance in A&E?

    Too many folk...not enough medical staff...basic mathematics.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  9. #39  
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    The paperwork was a political decision by liberals and conservatives in Scandinavia made on purpose to raise the costs to promote private hospitals.
    Oh I see lnao
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  10. #40  
    kas74 is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    38,676
    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Rang the doctors surgery today.

    My official doctor has no appointments available until March...The other one I use is on long term sick...so I eventually got a someone who is filling in, who knows naff all about me, 7th Feb.

    Now, fair enough, I've been putting off going for months as I don't like going...and it's probably something and nothing...but the receptionist didn't ask me if it was urgent...and I could be sat here worry about the lump I'd found etc. for all she knew.

    So would you wait (if it was a lump)...or take your chance in A&E?

    Too many folk...not enough medical staff...basic mathematics.
    Our surgery is desperately short of doctors;three retired in 2015 and were never replaced.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  11. #41  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,328
    Quote Originally Posted by IDREAMOFGINI View Post
    why didn't you write that in your initial post?
    It’s of no relevance to how we’ve been treated since.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  12. #42  
    kas74 is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    38,676
    Two and a half years ago my father[who had dementia]announced that he'd taken an overdose;he was taken to hospital by the police because there was a four hour wait for an ambulance.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  13. #43  
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    800
    Here in Houston the E.Rs are always packed and people end up in the hall. Its so crowded now that we have stand alone ERs with MRI, CTs and the like. The problem is too many people are getting sick at the same time and some believe their sickness is bad. Take for example the old man with a bleeding area, if its rectal and slow then no issue, he can wait. If its from the dingaling and has history of prostate issues then waiting he shall. Just because you think its seriously doesn't mean it is, if you come in with a heart rate of 160 then you get dibs, if you come in with any heart issue you get dibs, if you come in with Pneumonia and are stable, you don't get dibs. If you come in with diarrhea and are stable you don't get dibs, if you come in with a golfball up your butt, you don't get dibs, if you come in because you got stabbed in the belly or major blood vessel, you get dibs, if you come in cause you got stabbed and after test we determine you are in no life threatening situation, you don't get dibs. Again, just because its important to you doesn't mean its important or critical to people whose job it is to determine these things on a daily basis, whats new to you is everyday to us....even gerbals up the poop shoot is everyday to us.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  14. #44  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,439
    Quote Originally Posted by zedbimmer View Post
    Here in Houston the E.Rs are always packed and people end up in the hall. Its so crowded now that we have stand alone ERs with MRI, CTs and the like. The problem is too many people are getting sick at the same time and some believe their sickness is bad. Take for example the old man with a bleeding area, if its rectal and slow then no issue, he can wait. If its from the dingaling and has history of prostate issues then waiting he shall. Just because you think its seriously doesn't mean it is, if you come in with a heart rate of 160 then you get dibs, if you come in with any heart issue you get dibs, if you come in with Pneumonia and are stable, you don't get dibs. If you come in with diarrhea and are stable you don't get dibs, if you come in with a golfball up your butt, you don't get dibs, if you come in because you got stabbed in the belly or major blood vessel, you get dibs, if you come in cause you got stabbed and after test we determine you are in no life threatening situation, you don't get dibs. Again, just because its important to you doesn't mean its important or critical to people whose job it is to determine these things on a daily basis, whats new to you is everyday to us....even gerbals up the poop shoot is everyday to us.
    Americans!
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  15. #45  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,439
    Don't we have some people who work in the NHS on here? Might be nice to get their everyday experience on here.
    Eat. Sleep. Rave. Repeat.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  16. #46  
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,772
    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Its one of the problems, it has many IMO

    The other is the nature of our treatment and care for patients and patients care or lack of for themselves in some cases

    There is little in the way of preventative care, a field which promotes for example continuing independence in older age and less reliance on services, and sometimes after care for patients. Its also personal responsibility for patients to do all they can to support themselves with certain conditions where it takes actual management.

    I think the cost of a hospital bed overnight stay is £250 per night which is a huge cost, so when you throw things like the above into the equation you can see how much damage it all does

    The longer people are in, the worse it gets, the less staff we have, the bigger impacts on lengths of hospital stays too.

    I think we need a dramatic change in health care approaches basically, elderly people are far worse off going into hospital for instance so again we go full circle to that preventative care issue and how that could be adopted

    Staff in my experience tend to the do the absolute best they can but times have changed, as have needs and its not quite adapted to these in some ways
    Couldn’t agree more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Don't we have some people who work in the NHS on here? Might be nice to get their everyday experience on here.
    I can’t speak directly for my wife. But the only complaint she ever made before quitting the NHS was how staff were overworked and underpaid.

    She’d work 13 hours days/nights then have to come home and do paperwork. Once she’d reached management level, she quit within a year.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  17. #47  
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    6,427
    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Don't we have some people who work in the NHS on here? Might be nice to get their everyday experience on here.
    My wife retired last year. NHS pensions are very good by the way.


    She had as a quack worked in A&E but spent most of her last 10 years specialised in haematology. She says the waste is incredible and the increase in needless tests and the repeating of same is something that has only happened in the last few years.

    Then the amount spent on alcoholics repeated treatments. The same for illegal drug dependent people and finally the amount spent on repeated suicide attempts........Sometimes the same person for all three above!

    Add in the costs of treating obesity which was not a problem 20 years ago and the ageing, but not dying early enough population you have our perfect storm.

    But her take is that the NHS is the only "business" where the managers don't get to manage. Consultants, trained to be doctors have more power and influence than the people trained to manage. It's the only "industry" where this is true and it is at the heart of the problem.

    But having said all that more money does need to go to the NHS. Some could come from charging drunks, but we need to pay more tax and whatever people say in surveys they don't really want to.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  18. #48  
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,852
    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Whenever I've used the hospital and nhs they've been first class.
    I think all the negative stuff is from people who are impatient and expect to be seen instantly. Such is our selfish attitude these days
    St yes dead right. good post. However i do think since 2010 the funding for the NHS like schools has declined and not kept up. Its like saying you've budgeted more money than ever before to household repairs yet the hole in your roof is still leaking water.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  19. #49  
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    St yes dead right. good post. However i do think since 2010 the funding for the NHS like schools has declined and not kept up. Its like saying you've budgeted more money than ever before to household repairs yet the hole in your roof is still leaking water.
    Its been underfunded for decades .
    We have a growing population.....largely due to immigration.
    We have an older population.
    We have more people suffering from self inflicted illness

    But the nhs is leaking money because of its own wastefulness rather than a hole in the roof.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  20. #50  
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,852
    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Its been underfunded for decades .
    We have a growing population.....largely due to immigration.
    We have an older population.
    We have more people suffering from self inflicted illness

    But the nhs is leaking money because of its own wastefulness rather than a hole in the roof.
    Wrong. in survey after survey internationally it comes out as the best system of health care. Its despised by the Tories as its not private (repeat mantra after me: Public bad/private good) and nationally funded so theyve undermined it at every opportunity.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  21. #51  
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Wrong. in survey after survey internationally it comes out as the best system of health care. Its despised by the Tories as its not private (repeat mantra after me: Public bad/private good) and nationally funded so theyve undermined it at every opportunity.
    Yes it's the best health service......so why all this rubbish from labour saying the Tories have ruined it?
    Fact is labour just use the nhs to beat the Tories with.
    They exaggerate its problems.

    The Tories do not want a private health system. It's yet another left wing lie you need to get over your hatred of everyone who has more money than you.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  22. #52  
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    9,975
    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    The nhs gets plenty of money.....it's just wasted.
    Hospital a and e are crammed with people with minor ailments
    People go to a and e because they can't get in the doctors.
    Yes it can be better but it ain't that bad
    The GPs regularly tell us to take our son to A&E whenever we go see them, GPs do diddly squat nowadays stretching the local hospital resources further.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  23. #53  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    27,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    You also have a big amount of elderly former working class people who have work related illnesses so you cant actually talk about prevention
    You can still talk about prevention in those instances, absolutely you can, it's just a different scale & emphasis depending on the individual cases.

    Elderly are ideal in this respect to consider with that field of work, worse place for them is the hospital
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  24. #54  
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22,026
    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Wrong. in survey after survey internationally it comes out as the best system of health care.
    Citation, please.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  25. #55  
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    17,374
    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    You can still talk about prevention in those instances, absolutely you can, it's just a different scale & emphasis depending on the individual cases.

    Elderly are ideal in this respect to consider with that field of work, worse place for them is the hospital
    How can you prevent today occupational and work related illnesses created ages ago?
    specifically created in a time where the worker had less protection and more was expected?
    Best and probably most extreme example is asbestos and lung diseases
    Last edited by Anubis; 12-1-18 at 17:48.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  26. #56  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    27,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    How can you prevent today occupational and work related illnesses created ages ago?
    specifically created in a time where the worker had less protection and more was expected?
    Best and probably most extreme example is asbestos and lung diseases
    Your taking prevention or my meaning of it literally, 'preventative care' is in relation to manage say existing sicknesses in the most proactive ways possible, to minimise further impact where possible & prevent or minimise the need for hospitals.

    Not possible with all cases of course, but my old man for example has major health issues, some stem from being a miner, but he's had the help of an occupational therapist to assess his mobility, needs etc along with his home being assessed to see what can be installed to help him retain independence & better his chances of staying out of hospital.

    This is just a quick easy example, but if you apply the principle to the wider needs, it's where the NHS could evolve big time, front foot care of conditions, patients & how and when they are treated.

    I also think educating patients for certain conditions & how they can manage elements of it would be a huge help, we discharge people sometimes from hospitals or care none the wiser & they then have to come back with the same problem.

    250 quid a night, per bed, with not enough staff and patients having to come back, some of the above would help
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   



Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •