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Thread: VAR in the epl.... it will NOT work

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucasIsKing View Post
    It would be great to check offside calls. Easy to check and you can’t go wrong. But other decisions are going to be difficult. Pen / Red card decisions differ on opinions, would the Calvert Lewis penalty call still be a pen or not?
    Yes because there was contact.
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  2. #32  
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    I would start off just reviewing all penalty calls. This would be easy as there is a stoppage in play.

    I don't see where it would help with Offside calls, either the linesman raises his flag and play is stopped or he doesn't....You cant quite go back if the player was not offside.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYscouser View Post
    I would start off just reviewing all penalty calls. This would be easy as there is a stoppage in play.

    I don't see where it would help with Offside calls, either the linesman raises his flag and play is stopped or he doesn't....You cant quite go back if the player was not offside.
    If a goal is scored then it should be reviewed for offside.

    Problem is - if the linesman flags offside incorrectly and play is stopped then the attacking team have been disadvantaged. But that's not VAR's fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanicStations View Post
    If a goal is scored then it should be reviewed for offside.

    Problem is - if the linesman flags offside incorrectly and play is stopped then the attacking team have been disadvantaged.
    Exactly, and it's not then like you can say, well if your unsure don't raise the flag and it can be reviewed, because the striker might miss, the team get a corner and then score from that.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanicStations View Post
    If a goal is scored then it should be reviewed for offside.

    Problem is - if the linesman flags offside incorrectly and play is stopped then the attacking team have been disadvantaged. But that's not VAR's fault.
    But what if the linesman does not raise his flag and the striker misses, then the other team scores on a counter attack? Do we call play back all the way to where there was an offside or allow the goal for advantage? OR what if the striker is taken out by keeper/defender and a penalty should be given, is it overruled and play brought back to the offside? If the foul is a red card offense would a red card be given and play brought back to the offside? In my opinion offside calls should not be part of VAR.
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYscouser View Post
    But what if the linesman does not raise his flag and the striker misses, then the other team scores on a counter attack? Do we call play back all the way to where there was an offside or allow the goal for advantage? OR what if the striker is taken out by keeper/defender and a penalty should be given, is it overruled and play brought back to the offside? If the foul is a red card offense would a red card be given and play brought back to the offside? In my opinion offside calls should not be part of VAR.
    It's a perfectly good goal. He was onside and missed.

    It'll be monitored. If he was offside when the ball was played then the penalty decision is redundant as he was put through from an offside position. Bit like cricket when they check to make sure the bowler hasn't bowled a no ball before reviewing the decision.

    Of course offside should be part of VAR. I'd argue that's the main use for it. Offsides.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYscouser View Post
    Yes because there was contact.
    It's a contact sport.

    Calvert-Lewin's though probably would have led to a review but it is one those that even VAR will find tough.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    So far I don't like it.

    One thing I want to know is this - In the Chelsea VS Arsenal game on Wednesday there was an incident where it looked like Chelsea may get a penalty. On the field of play the referee had decided that it was not a penalty and play continued. The play itself had continued for around a minute before the ball went out of play. At this point the ref was alerted by the VAR that it may need looked into which they did before deciding the decision was correct and that the ball had been won.

    However what would happen if it had not been won? A penalty would be given after almost a minute of play. Now that may not be too bad, but what happens if in that situation the ball has not went out of play for a further 4 minutes, which can quite easily happen in a game. Once the play is stopped the ref then awards a penalty after looking at it. What happens to that 4 minutes? Does it get added on again at the end, because It was completely pointless, because no matter what happened in that 4 minutes it would not have counted, if the other team score then it's going to be chalked off, so surely that 4 minutes HAS to be added back on. Also if that situation occurs and the foul is in the 80th minute but the penalty isn't taken until the 85th minute that gives the team conceding the penalty a huge disadvantage in trying to level the game if there is less time to do so.
    That's one of the many reasons why VAR doesn't make sense. In your same scenario, what if someone during the 4 minutes injures another player and gets a red then the game is brought back to the penalty... Does the red card stand? Does the other team lose a sub for replacing the injured player? If not, how does it show on the game sheet, that 14 players played?

    I really don't like the idea of time just 'disappearing' from the game, it doesn't make sense and so far I haven't been impressed by the decisions taken after VAR review anyway.

    I've been against it since the beginning and was shut down on here constantly but I hope enough people will see how terrible it is now that it's being added to some leagues.
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanicStations View Post
    If a goal is scored then it should be reviewed for offside.

    Problem is - if the linesman flags offside incorrectly and play is stopped then the attacking team have been disadvantaged. But that's not VAR's fault.
    The simple solution here is for the referee to allow play to continue and review if a goal is scored. Players should play to the whistle, not stop when a little flag is waived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanCanPressing View Post
    That's one of the many reasons why VAR doesn't make sense. In your same scenario, what if someone during the 4 minutes injures another player and gets a red then the game is brought back to the penalty... Does the red card stand? Does the other team lose a sub for replacing the injured player? If not, how does it show on the game sheet, that 14 players played?

    I really don't like the idea of time just 'disappearing' from the game, it doesn't make sense and so far I haven't been impressed by the decisions taken after VAR review anyway.

    I've been against it since the beginning and was shut down on here constantly but I hope enough people will see how terrible it is now that it's being added to some leagues.
    You're overthinking it.
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  11. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    The simple solution here is for the referee to allow play to continue and review if a goal is scored. Players should play to the whistle, not stop when a little flag is waived.
    Yep
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  12. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanCanPressing View Post
    That's one of the many reasons why VAR doesn't make sense. In your same scenario, what if someone during the 4 minutes injures another player and gets a red then the game is brought back to the penalty... Does the red card stand? Does the other team lose a sub for replacing the injured player? If not, how does it show on the game sheet, that 14 players played?

    I really don't like the idea of time just 'disappearing' from the game, it doesn't make sense and so far I haven't been impressed by the decisions taken after VAR review anyway.

    I've been against it since the beginning and was shut down on here constantly but I hope enough people will see how terrible it is now that it's being added to some leagues.
    It isn't terrible. It just needs refining and a clear way of operating. Only have it used when there's breaks in play. Simple.

    As Chris said earlier in the thread and he raised good points/concerns, it can't work pulling play back.
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  13. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    The simple solution here is for the referee to allow play to continue and review if a goal is scored. Players should play to the whistle, not stop when a little flag is waived.
    Exactly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plan-D View Post
    It isn't terrible. It just needs refining and a clear way of operating. Only have it used when there's breaks in play. Simple.

    As Chris said earlier in the thread and he raised good points/concerns, it can't work pulling play back.
    Then this will introduce even more breaks and delays since the refs will whistle at everyhing to make sure they don't miss a decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LovelyCushionedHeader View Post
    It's a contact sport.

    Calvert-Lewin's though probably would have led to a review but it is one those that even VAR will find tough.
    Not really, it was a clear pk.
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  16. #46  
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    What people need to understand is that VAR is their to help make the correct decisions, not clean up football so their is never a wrong made decision again.
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    I don't understand how it can't work, all it will do is cause a minute or two's tension inside the ground.

    I don't even think it will interrupt the 'flow of the game' much either as 1) it usually occurs once ball has gone out of play and 2) 95% of games in the prem are pretty terrible and have no flow anyway.

    Does anyone else not remember the season where utd had EIGHT, that's number 8, offside goals in their favour... or the season where Arsenal had a clear handball goal given in last min v burnley? or when they were a awarded a pen for a dive last min v Southammpton?
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    If the same dunces that referee games are reviewing the video footage, I have very little faith in VAR. The majority of bad calls aren't made because refs can't see what happened, it's because they lack judgment, consistency, and accountability.
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  19. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis-Garcia's-left-peg View Post
    What people need to understand is that VAR is their to help make the correct decisions, not clean up football so their is never a wrong made decision again.
    there
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    You're overthinking it.
    ...okay. So if an event like that happens - which isn't that far-fetched, MUCH crazier things happen in football constantly - we shouldn't be prepared and think things through?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanCanPressing View Post
    ...okay. So if an event like that happens - which isn't that far-fetched, MUCH crazier things happen in football constantly - we shouldn't be prepared and think things through?
    If VAR is first employed to just determine onside/offside for goals not really. There are judgement calls like fouls and pens and there are black/white calls like the ball fully crossing the plane and offside/onside. Focus on the latter first, which shouldn't be down to interpretation, collect data, revise as needed, THEN start deploying VAR other areas as (or if) needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivapewlDivas View Post
    I don't understand how it can't work, all it will do is cause a minute or two's tension inside the ground.

    I don't even think it will interrupt the 'flow of the game' much either as 1) it usually occurs once ball has gone out of play and 2) 95% of games in the prem are pretty terrible and have no flow anyway.

    Does anyone else not remember the season where utd had EIGHT, that's number 8, offside goals in their favour... or the season where Arsenal had a clear handball goal given in last min v burnley? or when they were a awarded a pen for a dive last min v Southammpton?
    very valid points. in those sceneriois you are right, those goals (you would hope) would be correctly ruled out and play would continue.

    my argument is that from what i have seen in the A-league is that sometimes the VAR still gets it wrong with certain offside calls which makes it more infuriating as it is there on tape.

    there have also been many instances where a player receives a yellow but after 2 minutes of replays the ref says ďhang on, after reviewing that its actually a redĒ and they have been AWFUL calls.

    there has legit been occasions when a goal has been scored which is offside but the ref didnít check it and the goal stood, yet the opposition had their goal ruled offside because of VAR.

    if they do it correctly and consistently across all teams it may work, but speaking only from an australian perspective, itís been a ****** mess, with fans, players and coaches slamming the idea.
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    The video ref should exist to alert the ref that he's either missed an incident or that he's got a decision wrong. It can also be used for s ref to ask the video ref to check an incident if he's unsure. In terms of a video ref, their decision should supersede the ref on the pitch, because the assumption should be that he has more information and a better perspective than the man on the pitch.
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  24. #54  
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    Not having it did NOT work for Southampton today.

    I've not seen any of the game, but I'm guessing there was lots of complaining after it, during which time the goal could have been reviewed. So stopping the flow of the game argument don't work there.
    YNWA
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  25. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    The video ref should exist to alert the ref that he's either missed an incident or that he's got a decision wrong. It can also be used for s ref to ask the video ref to check an incident if he's unsure. In terms of a video ref, their decision should supersede the ref on the pitch, because the assumption should be that he has more information and a better perspective than the man on the pitch.
    Sums it up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannno View Post
    Sums it up
    Football is so far behind other sports,the premier league is so fast, end to end stuff yet the officials are overweight,50 yr old men struggling to keep up with the game.Two games that are even faster end to end type sports are aussie rules football and basketball and they both have one thing in common,that is they have two umpires,one in each half of the field/court so they're not miles behind getting caught the wrong side of play etc, two refs,one in each half of the field,less running,better positioning,less mistakes,with two linesman and video also there should be no excuses or complaints of dodgy decisions,like i said, football is years behind other sports,afraid of change that will make the game cleaner and would stop the dodgy calls and diving etc
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    VAR will be the best thing to happen to football in ages.

    I look forward and welcome its full implementation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-77-78-81-84-05 View Post
    Not having it did NOT work for Southampton today.

    I've not seen any of the game, but I'm guessing there was lots of complaining after it, during which time the goal could have been reviewed. So stopping the flow of the game argument don't work there.
    today would be a classic example of where it would have worked. i agree. just always isnít the case in different types of scenarios. gotta feel for southampton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batteries View Post
    VAR will be the best thing to happen to football in ages.

    I look forward and welcome its full implementation.
    sincerely hope you are right but am confident you will be very wrong. decisions will get better, sure, but the ones they get wrong will just be so much harder to take now due to still getting it wrong based on evidence
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelaidered 78 View Post
    Football is so far behind other sports,the premier league is so fast, end to end stuff yet the officials are overweight,50 yr old men struggling to keep up with the game.Two games that are even faster end to end type sports are aussie rules football and basketball and they both have one thing in common,that is they have two umpires,one in each half of the field/court so they're not miles behind getting caught the wrong side of play etc, two refs,one in each half of the field,less running,better positioning,less mistakes,with two linesman and video also there should be no excuses or complaints of dodgy decisions,like i said, football is years behind other sports,afraid of change that will make the game cleaner and would stop the dodgy calls and diving etc
    Do they have 4 linesman altogether - 2 on each side of the pitch in both halves of the pitch?

    Also regarding having two refs, does it ever get a bit complicated with them not agreeing with decisions etc.
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