Notices
Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 67

Thread: VAR in the epl.... it will NOT work

  1. #1 Default VAR in the epl.... it will NOT work 
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,103
    Thought i would start my first ever thread on these forums about a topic i am passionate about, the use of video technology in football.

    Being from australia i have witnessed it in full action in our local A-league, coming to the conclusion that it is a big FAIL. some things worth mentioning from experience:

    - decisions do NOT improve. instead it causes more controversy and inconsistency between games.

    - the time that goes by before a decision is made is far too long and stops momentum. reviews often take up to 2 minutes at a time and sometimes play goes on for a good 1-2 minutes before it is even checked. talk about momentum swings

    - referees seem to pick and choose when they want to use the technology. often things are still missed because referees are too arrogant to check their mistakes.

    interesting to see if there is actually anyone out there that is pro video technology in football. I feel it will really destroy the sport and managers will only complain more when it arrives.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  2. #2  
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    816
    It would be great to check offside calls. Easy to check and you canít go wrong. But other decisions are going to be difficult. Pen / Red card decisions differ on opinions, would the Calvert Lewis penalty call still be a pen or not?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  3. #3  
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie_Pat View Post
    Thought i would start my first ever thread on these forums about a topic i am passionate about, the use of video technology in football.

    Being from australia i have witnessed it in full action in our local A-league, coming to the conclusion that it is a big FAIL. some things worth mentioning from experience:

    - decisions do NOT improve. instead it causes more controversy and inconsistency between games.

    - the time that goes by before a decision is made is far too long and stops momentum. reviews often take up to 2 minutes at a time and sometimes play goes on for a good 1-2 minutes before it is even checked. talk about momentum swings

    - referees seem to pick and choose when they want to use the technology. often things are still missed because referees are too arrogant to check their mistakes.

    interesting to see if there is actually anyone out there that is pro video technology in football. I feel it will really destroy the sport and managers will only complain more when it arrives.
    The VAR is only as good as the people who watch the replays & make judgements on it. That's why it's a total fail in the A League,I've seen goals awarded when players are offside & then it happens exactly the same again & it's ruled offside. I can't get my head around it,I like the goal line technology we already have in the PL & that's enough for me.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  4. #4  
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by LucasIsKing View Post
    It would be great to check offside calls. Easy to check and you canít go wrong. But other decisions are going to be difficult. Pen / Red card decisions differ on opinions, would the Calvert Lewis penalty call still be a pen or not?
    i have to agree that perhaps checking if it is offside then that is ok. but what if someone is incorrectly flagged offside and the ref stops play, when they would have been through on goal? VAR canít intervene then. i just find it pointless and it wonít solve anything, not like it goes in cricket and tennis anyway.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  5. #5  
    LovelyCushionedHeader is online now Academy prospect
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,869
    Im all for it.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  6. #6  
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,203
    Iím all for it. Iíd like it work like rugby too where the TMO in the box can alert the ref to an incident he missed. Fellaini would be seeing red all the time
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  7. #7  
    Jannno is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    29,415
    Quote Originally Posted by hj77 View Post
    I’m all for it. I’d like it work like rugby too where the TMO in the box can alert the ref to an incident he missed.
    I think this. That would be like giving the on-field ref 6 extra pairs of eyes and the game would only stop when there was a need.
    Saw David Warner criticising VAR on the TV yesterday, but then he said he likes the ambiguity and discussion about incidents. I think that once we've all seen all the angles and the wrong decision being made, that adds to resentment, not interest or the reputation of the game.
    Last edited by Jannno; 12-1-18 at 09:22.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  8. #8  
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,203
    I think any review has to have clear and obvious evidence to overturn a refs on field decision.

    So if you take the 2 pens in the last derbies, if reviewed both would remain as pens. As there is not enough evidence to say they werenít fouls.

    There are incidences though where there is definite contact and no pen given or where a pen has been awarded for a clear dive. These would be overturned.

    A bit like umpires call in cricket. Any doubt, the refs decision stands.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  9. #9  
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    24,867
    So far I don't like it.

    One thing I want to know is this - In the Chelsea VS Arsenal game on Wednesday there was an incident where it looked like Chelsea may get a penalty. On the field of play the referee had decided that it was not a penalty and play continued. The play itself had continued for around a minute before the ball went out of play. At this point the ref was alerted by the VAR that it may need looked into which they did before deciding the decision was correct and that the ball had been won.

    However what would happen if it had not been won? A penalty would be given after almost a minute of play. Now that may not be too bad, but what happens if in that situation the ball has not went out of play for a further 4 minutes, which can quite easily happen in a game. Once the play is stopped the ref then awards a penalty after looking at it. What happens to that 4 minutes? Does it get added on again at the end, because It was completely pointless, because no matter what happened in that 4 minutes it would not have counted, if the other team score then it's going to be chalked off, so surely that 4 minutes HAS to be added back on. Also if that situation occurs and the foul is in the 80th minute but the penalty isn't taken until the 85th minute that gives the team conceding the penalty a huge disadvantage in trying to level the game if there is less time to do so.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  10. #10  
    Jannno is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    29,415
    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    So far I don't like it.

    One thing I want to know is this - In the Chelsea VS Arsenal game on Wednesday there was an incident where it looked like Chelsea may get a penalty. On the field of play the referee had decided that it was not a penalty and play continued. The play itself had continued for around a minute before the ball went out of play. At this point the ref was alerted by the VAR that it may need looked into which they did before deciding the decision was correct and that the ball had been won.

    However what would happen if it had not been won? A penalty would be given after almost a minute of play. Now that may not be too bad, but what happens if in that situation the ball has not went out of play for a further 4 minutes, which can quite easily happen in a game. Once the play is stopped the ref then awards a penalty after looking at it. What happens to that 4 minutes? Does it get added on again at the end, because It was completely pointless, because no matter what happened in that 4 minutes it would not have counted, if the other team score then it's going to be chalked off, so surely that 4 minutes HAS to be added back on. Also if that situation occurs and the foul is in the 80th minute but the penalty isn't taken until the 85th minute that gives the team conceding the penalty a huge disadvantage in trying to level the game if there is less time to do so.
    I think perhaps the off field ref should be able to just tell the ref to stop the game because they saw something he didn't. I think it's the consulting and discussion that is the problem. Then surely viewing the replays and different angles could bring a decision within a minute.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  11. #11  
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,077
    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    So far I don't like it.

    One thing I want to know is this - In the Chelsea VS Arsenal game on Wednesday there was an incident where it looked like Chelsea may get a penalty. On the field of play the referee had decided that it was not a penalty and play continued. The play itself had continued for around a minute before the ball went out of play. At this point the ref was alerted by the VAR that it may need looked into which they did before deciding the decision was correct and that the ball had been won.

    However what would happen if it had not been won? A penalty would be given after almost a minute of play. Now that may not be too bad, but what happens if in that situation the ball has not went out of play for a further 4 minutes, which can quite easily happen in a game. Once the play is stopped the ref then awards a penalty after looking at it. What happens to that 4 minutes? Does it get added on again at the end, because It was completely pointless, because no matter what happened in that 4 minutes it would not have counted, if the other team score then it's going to be chalked off, so surely that 4 minutes HAS to be added back on. Also if that situation occurs and the foul is in the 80th minute but the penalty isn't taken until the 85th minute that gives the team conceding the penalty a huge disadvantage in trying to level the game if there is less time to do so.
    The system needs working on that's for sure. They need someone watching the footage and deciding within seconds if the game needs to be stopped or not.

    I can see the positives and negatives but I think ultimately it will be good for football. Not at first though.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  12. #12  
    herbeer is offline Knows who has the Ranfurly Shield
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,421
    Reckon it should be a challenge system like tennis and cricket. Each team only get one incorrect challenge ie itís an obvious mistake corrected or your rights for the day are done
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  13. #13  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,135
    The VAR system in it current mode is rubbish. What they need to introduce is a system similar to as used in tennis.

    Both teams via their captains should be entitled to 2 reviews per half of a decision they wish to challenge.

    If they run out of challenges, the original referee decision stands.
    My ship is coming in.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  14. #14  
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    24,867
    Quote Originally Posted by youwannabe View Post
    The VAR system in it current mode is rubbish. What they need to introduce is a system similar to as used in tennis.

    Both teams via their captains should be entitled to 2 reviews per half of a decision they wish to challenge.

    If they run out of challenges, the original referee decision stands.
    The problem with that is, at the end of the game if you still have challenges left teams will start using them tactically to stop/slow the game down when defending leads etc.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  15. #15  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    26,284
    Quote Originally Posted by herbeer View Post
    Reckon it should be a challenge system like tennis and cricket. Each team only get one incorrect challenge ie it’s an obvious mistake corrected or your rights for the day are done
    Quote Originally Posted by youwannabe View Post
    The VAR system in it current mode is rubbish. What they need to introduce is a system similar to as used in tennis.

    Both teams via their captains should be entitled to 2 reviews per half of a decision they wish to challenge.

    If they run out of challenges, the original referee decision stands.
    I agree with this. It'll get ridiculous if both teams have unlimited amounts of 'challenges'. I believe that the flow of the game will already be severely disrupted, so it is essential that there are some restrictions. The only issue with this is incorrect calls will still occur, I guess.

    Personally, I don't believe football can be compared to tennis and cricket. Football is continuous, sometimes there is not a break in play for a few minutes and momentum is key to an enjoyable 90 minutes, in my opinion. In tennis and cricket, there is a break after every delivery or serve. So there is basically a natural break in play. If a player/team wants to make a challenge, they do not have to wait a minute and a half for the ball to go out of play. They can appeal and watch a replay instantly.

    Also, in cricket and tennis the 'reviews' are definitive. The hawk-eye system will show whether a ball has pitched in line or a serve has landed inside the tramlines. In football, a lot of decisions are subjective, especially when it comes to penalty decisions and tackles. I've even seen ex footballers and pundits disputing offsides, too. Goal line technology, similarly to the hawk-eye system used in tennis and cricket, is definitive and has worked incredibly well.

    We're in the initial stages of the VAR and there have been some teething problems, that is to be expected. I think it would be naive to completely discount the usage of technology in football, but it would also be naive to think that this technology will not change the game, too.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  16. #16  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    26,284
    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    The problem with that is, at the end of the game if you still have challenges left teams will start using them tactically to stop/slow the game down when defending leads etc.
    Good point, I hadn't thought of that.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  17. #17  
    MiraclesArePossible is online now Boot Room insider
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    56,968
    I don't see how it stands to reason that using VAR doesn't help improve decisions. Nor does the fact that decisions are controversial imply that they're incorrect.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  18. #18  
    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    53,105
    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    So far I don't like it.

    One thing I want to know is this - In the Chelsea VS Arsenal game on Wednesday there was an incident where it looked like Chelsea may get a penalty. On the field of play the referee had decided that it was not a penalty and play continued. The play itself had continued for around a minute before the ball went out of play. At this point the ref was alerted by the VAR that it may need looked into which they did before deciding the decision was correct and that the ball had been won.

    However what would happen if it had not been won? A penalty would be given after almost a minute of play. Now that may not be too bad, but what happens if in that situation the ball has not went out of play for a further 4 minutes, which can quite easily happen in a game. Once the play is stopped the ref then awards a penalty after looking at it. What happens to that 4 minutes? Does it get added on again at the end, because It was completely pointless, because no matter what happened in that 4 minutes it would not have counted, if the other team score then it's going to be chalked off, so surely that 4 minutes HAS to be added back on. Also if that situation occurs and the foul is in the 80th minute but the penalty isn't taken until the 85th minute that gives the team conceding the penalty a huge disadvantage in trying to level the game if there is less time to do so.
    I think it's crap anyway, goal line tech is enough in my view; as for your point what happens if during this 'do we need to stop the game to look at VAR' the other team scores ? I pray for that it would be hilarious.
    dont look back in anger.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  19. #19  
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    897
    I think it'll work long term but it'll take some getting used to. There was a story recently in the daily mail about Bundesliga fans being unhappy with it:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-sick-it.html

    Like everything else, I expect that there'll be some teething problems regarding when and how it should be used, but once are sorted out it'll be fine.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  20. #20  
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    24,967
    People from Germany and Italy will disagree.

    It's not perfect, but it's corrected so many wrong decisions.

    My only problem is the referee having to wait and watch the replays. Takes too long.

    Just give full authority to another referee that's watching the replays.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  21. #21  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    25,395
    It's fine as long as it only overrules obvious mistakes...not judgement calls.

    Off side is a matter of fact, so that's easy enough.

    Off the ball stuff is a problem, as refs let numerous incidents, that are clearly fouls, go punishment free every game.

    So are we only going to look at that when a goal is scored...or do we end up giving multiple penalties every game, just because the ref off the pitch sticks to the rules that the pitch ref let's slide?
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  22. #22  
    LovelyCushionedHeader is online now Academy prospect
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,869
    Somebody on a podcast I listened to made a good point that if there were less people being ********* then there wouldn't be a need for it. If players didn't try to con the ref and if managers didn't blame the ref after 3/4s of their losses for example.

    But that's not modern football, it will benefit the fairness of the game in the long run and that's what a lot of people seem to want so VAR is necessary.

    Nobody is seeing the VAR we'll see this week will be the same VAR we see in 10 years time.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  23. #23  
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,283
    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    It's fine as long as it only overrules obvious mistakes...not judgement calls.

    Off side is a matter of fact, so that's easy enough.

    Off the ball stuff is a problem, as refs let numerous incidents, that are clearly fouls, go punishment free every game.

    So are we only going to look at that when a goal is scored...or do we end up giving multiple penalties every game, just because the ref off the pitch sticks to the rules that the pitch ref let's slide?
    Good points.

    I think it should ultimately be used for goals, offsides and straight red cards as they are always the breaks in play. Them 3 things can also massively change a game so video tech isn't a bad thing for them. 2 reviews per side of a 90 mins. 1 additional if goes into extra time.

    Free-kicks, pens, fouls and its just opening up a can of worms, it's about opinions half the time.

    With goals, offsides and redcards there really isn't a opinion. There's pretty much definitive evidence with that stuff.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  24. #24  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    25,395
    Quote Originally Posted by LovelyCushionedHeader View Post
    Somebody on a podcast I listened to made a good point that if there were less people being ********* then there wouldn't be a need for it. If players didn't try to con the ref and if managers didn't blame the ref after 3/4s of their losses for example.

    But that's not modern football, it will benefit the fairness of the game in the long run and that's what a lot of people seem to want so VAR is necessary.

    Nobody is seeing the VAR we'll see this week will be the same VAR we see in 10 years time.
    Only if refs interpret the game rules consistently across all associations.

    We already have big differences between what is, or is not, a foul in different competitions...or which type/style of teams are playing.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  25. #25  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,135
    Quote Originally Posted by youwannabe View Post
    The VAR system in it current mode is rubbish. What they need to introduce is a system similar to as used in tennis.

    Both teams via their captains should be entitled to 2 reviews per half of a decision they wish to challenge.

    If they run out of challenges, the original referee decision stands.
    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    The problem with that is, at the end of the game if you still have challenges left teams will start using them tactically to stop/slow the game down when defending leads etc.

    That would not be a problem because the referee would still have to agree to the VAR request. Remember the referee would have to have made a decision worthy of contesting.

    So if the opposition are on a counter attack and the opposition request for a VAR to slow things down, the referee would have the power to simple dismiss with a simple hand gesture play continues as normal with no interruption whatsoever .

    Also every VAR request would me a minimum of an extra minute of added time.
    My ship is coming in.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  26. #26  
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    14,953
    It shouldn't start off being used to adjudge personal fouls, rather only to determine if a goal was scored from an onside or offside position, which could include build up, not just the scorer's position. Keep it that simple at first then build off of what's been learned.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  27. #27  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,538
    Quote Originally Posted by youwannabe View Post
    The VAR system in it current mode is rubbish. What they need to introduce is a system similar to as used in tennis.

    Both teams via their captains should be entitled to 2 reviews per half of a decision they wish to challenge.

    If they run out of challenges, the original referee decision stands.
    This would be a good addition to the system if it's implemented. But reversal of the on-field Ref's decision should only be when it's blatantly an obviously wrong decision.

    That was the original intent in Cricket, but when you see third-umpires taking 5 minutes, then you know it's being used wrong, because if you have to look at 5 different angles before deciding on something, then you should just send it back to the on-field ump.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  28. #28  
    LovelyCushionedHeader is online now Academy prospect
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,869
    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Only if refs interpret the game rules consistently across all associations.

    We already have big differences between what is, or is not, a foul in different competitions...or which type/style of teams are playing.
    Yeah but that's exactly as it is now.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  29. #29  
    Mersey Dudek is online now Academy prospect
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    12,473
    A lot of problems with it as was expected.

    Still think it's probably for the best. But I have no doubts there'll be a lot of hate for it for the first year or so.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  30. #30  
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    8,554
    The sooner it is made a non-contact sport the better.

    Can be NO ambiguity then.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   



Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •