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Thread: Virgil Van Dijk

  1. #151  
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    I sometimes think watching us is gonna put me in an early grave!
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  2. #152  
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyRedWillDo View Post
    I sometimes think watching us is gonna put me in an early grave!
    same
    Eagle Face Moron
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  3. #153  
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGothAndaJock View Post
    Carra needed a lot of time and space to shift the ball. Apart from that he was proper. Imagine if we had him and Hyypia at their peak in defence now?!

    VVD is a star. He’s our Pogba. Instantly he’s the main man and leader in the dressing room.
    yes defence would be better BUT Carra and Sami had protection in front of them. VVD etc dont have that now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegenpressing View Post
    I just don’t see that at all. I think plenty of people are not giving Carra enough credit. I get why people might say Terry had the edge over Carra, but to say Terry was a lot better just isn’t correct imo.
    Even Carragher has said this himself mate.

    Carragher, whilst never my favourite player, must be given respect for maximising his talent and becoming the best player he could be, but he was way below the likes of the top Premier League CB's such as Terry, Adams, Ferdinand, Vidic, Campbell etc.

    If Woodgate and King could have stayed fit they would have surpassed him too.
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  5. #155  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    I hope u don’t xxxx your knickers when I suggest that King Kenny couldn’t survive in the EPL with the pace of the game today.

    The game is faster. Fact. Jan Molby, Ronny Rosenthal even keepers like Neville Southall would be keeling over after 15 minutes at the speed the game is played now.

    Hyypia was caught up in changing times. He’d have been a Balon D’or contender if the game was still played at 80s pace.

    Ducks for cover
    If they played today all the players you mentioned would be fine as they would be conditioned in the same way that players are today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grevsmoker View Post
    If they played today all the players you mentioned would be fine as they would be conditioned in the same way that players are today.
    Yea, I never really get this argument. As if these players couldnt adapt and develop under current training methods. But you know, Charlie Adam can do it just fine.
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  7. #157  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    Yea, I never really get this argument. As if these players couldnt adapt and develop under current training methods. But you know, Charlie Adam can do it just fine.
    You could possibly argue that the minimum effort required in terms of training, conditioning and preparation is higher today. But even so that would only apply to the lesser players. Genuine legends would thrive in any era. Cruyff would have been amazing now. De Bruyne would have been amazing then.
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  8. #158  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegenpressing View Post
    I just don’t see that at all. I think plenty of people are not giving Carra enough credit. I get why people might say Terry had the edge over Carra, but to say Terry was a lot better just isn’t correct imo.
    I wouldn’t put Carra on Terrys level but at the same time I think people are remembering Carras last few years at the club when he was slow and old and not his prime which was admittedly shorter than Terrys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grevsmoker View Post
    I wouldn’t put Carra on Terrys level but at the same time I think people are remembering Carras last few years at the club when he was slow and old and not his prime which was admittedly shorter than Terrys.
    Carra's prime would have been what? 2004-2009? And tbh he was effective at full-back in that 2001 side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBarnes79 View Post
    Carra's prime would have been what? 2004-2009? And tbh he was effective at full-back in that 2001 side.
    Something like that. And he was excellent in those years. Maybe not quite at Terrys level but wouldn’t have looked out of place in any top side.
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    While we're comparing vigorously, I just like to say that Terry used to play the Hyypia role. Carra played the Carvalho role.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonylet View Post
    While we're comparing vigorously, I just like to say that Terry used to play the Hyypia role. Carra played the Carvalho role.
    Hyypia was an absolute beast though. One of the most criminally underrated defenders of that time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grevsmoker View Post
    You could possibly argue that the minimum effort required in terms of training, conditioning and preparation is higher today. But even so that would only apply to the lesser players. Genuine legends would thrive in any era. Cruyff would have been amazing now. De Bruyne would have been amazing then.
    You are of course correct. The suggestion that today’s game is too fast for players like King Kenny is laughably absurd and just completely ill informed. Diego Maradona was one of the laziest stars you can imagine but once he stepped on that pitch, his brain, his skill was faster than anyone who plays the game today.

    Players adjust to their environment. Kenny, Cruyff, Molby etc would be just as great as they are today because they would adjust their brilliance to how the game is played today. Just like Messi and Ronaldo would have had to adjust to the types of tackles and physicality that was allowed back then that isn’t now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grevsmoker View Post
    If they played today all the players you mentioned would be fine as they would be conditioned in the same way that players are today.
    Possibly. But you could argue that its the same as in many sports. Once upon a time Jesse Owens was uncatchable. At his best would he compete with a fit and firing Usian Bolt over the last decade? Would 80s Carl Lewis be able to beat the Jamaican... or would even a drugged up Ben Johnson be able to do so? I don't know. Maybe its a physical thing / better sporting specimen or can they be trained to be faster (if so, somebody help Andy Carroll).

    Maybe if they wore today's trainers and trained better they would. Same as in football. Back in the day a few pints after the game for the odd 35 year old professional player was the norm. Today the average player is long retired by then (or playing in the lower leagues / USA) after being criticised for a few nights out on laughing gas.

    Its not quite the same as Formula 1 where you can argue that Senna in Hamilton's car would beat Hamilton (or at least give him a good race). You can't compare it with a game like Tennis where pushing the limits of perfection has been required for decades, football has evolved, for many reasons. The game is faster due to players being younger and fitter. The technical aspect in the Premiership has improved due to the influx of gifted foreign players. Coaches, nutritionists, therapists, medics, constant scrutiny from an ever demanding public (especially on social media) they've all affected the game and as such the players.

    But for the sake of not needing to argue the obvious, I'll just agree that todays players are in no way better than before and the game has not changed at all. George Best with his lifestyle back then would still be the best footballer in England and old man Roger Millar would score truckloads in a World Cup again. Peace.
    Last edited by Joe-El; 14-2-18 at 22:50.
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  15. #165  
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    The man is class personified
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  16. #166  
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    The only thing missing from his game tonight was a cigar.
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  17. #167  
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    Rolls Royce player.
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  18. #168  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    Possibly. But you could argue that its the same as in many sports. Once upon a time Jesse Owens was uncatchable. At his best would he compete with a fit and firing Usian Bolt over the last decade? Would 80s Carl Lewis be able to beat the Jamaican... or would even a drugged up Ben Johnson be able to do so? I don't know. Maybe its a physical thing / better sporting specimen or can they be trained to be faster (if so, somebody help Andy Carroll).

    Maybe if they wore today's trainers and trained better they would. Same as in football. Back in the day a few pints after the game for the odd 35 year old professional player was the norm. Today the average player is long retired by then (or playing in the lower leagues / USA) after being criticised for a few nights out on laughing gas.

    Its not quite the same as Formula 1 where you can argue that Senna in Hamilton's car would beat Hamilton (or at least give him a good race). You can't compare it with a game like Tennis where pushing the limits of perfection has been required for decades, football has evolved, for many reasons. The game is faster due to players being younger and fitter. The technical aspect in the Premiership has improved due to the influx of gifted foreign players. Coaches, nutritionists, therapists, medics, constant scrutiny from an ever demanding public (especially on social media) they've all affected the game and as such the players.

    But for the sake of not needing to argue the obvious, I'll just agree that todays players are in no way better than before and the game has not changed at all. George Best with his lifestyle back then would still be the best footballer in England and old man Roger Millar would score truckloads in a World Cup again. Peace.
    You have missed the point to a staggering degree.
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  19. #169  
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    He looks a class apart. I have to say the defence looks so assured when he is in that backline.

    Dejan Lovren may be the greatest beneficiary of VVD's arrival.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larissa Karius View Post
    He looks a class apart. I have to say the defence looks so assured when he is in that backline.

    Dejan Lovren may be the greatest beneficiary of VVD's arrival.
    Karius too, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grevsmoker View Post
    You have missed the point to a staggering degree.
    Ok. All I ever said was the game has changed, its faster / harder. What point were you making?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    Ok. All I ever said was the game has changed, its faster / harder. What point were you making?
    i agree the game is now faster....but harder? In what way? Certainly not in tackling, pitch conditions, ball lightness and boot technology!
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    He’s just flat out better than what most teams will have to offer.... and he plays like he knows it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAlmeida View Post
    i agree the game is now faster....but harder? In what way? Certainly not in tackling, pitch conditions, ball lightness and boot technology!
    The modern-day player is evolving, coaches have to make intelligent footballers from a young age. The Premier League is getting faster. Players have less time on the ball and need to be able to make decisions quickly, independent of the coach. The more they practise in that way, the faster they're able to make correct decisions under pressure - playing the right pass, hitting a shot... blah blah blah

    The biggest change is that players are now more two-footed, they have to have complete balance, which means they can beat players in any direction. At a teams like Chelsea, Liverpool, Manure they start at under-eights... under eights! And then its hard to even make it because of the foreign players in the game. Chopper Harris in the EPL... no chance. I'm not an expert at the game by any means... but even I can see how much its changed. Players have had no choice but to improve just to get a chance.

    There was a time when John Barnes looked Brazilian, because you didn't expect English players to do what he did. Studge at his peak had samba feet and we didn't even go mad for it. Today we have Lallana doing Cruff turns for fun and nobody gives a stuff. Imagine if Garath Bale had appeared on the scene 20 years earlier... he'd have been a Balon D'or winner. Owen was running riot back in the 90s and Henry with the same amount of pace had column writers in a daze. They use to be one offs. We have two reckless speed demons in our 1st 11 now!

    But this is the sort of debate that occurs everywhere. People asking whether Tyson could have taken Ali, or if Messi is better than Maradona. In truth I'd put my money on the 'newer' athletes in both instances but thats just me and my reasoning being that over time just like every other sport there is the quest for perfection... looking at whats worked in the past and improving on it. Money plays a factor too more so than ever, because theres always somebody wanting to cash in. I don't know. Xxxx it... you tell me why you think the games not harder. How about we start there (before the witless one line wonders drop their crap)
    Last edited by Joe-El; 15-2-18 at 00:15.
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  25. #175  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-El View Post
    The modern-day player is evolving, coaches have to make intelligent footballers from a young age. The Premier League is getting faster. Players have less time on the ball and need to be able to make decisions quickly, independent of the coach. The more they practise in that way, the faster they're able to make correct decisions under pressure - playing the right pass, hitting a shot... blah blah blah

    The biggest change is that players are now more two-footed, they have to have complete balance, which means they can beat players in any direction. At a teams like Chelsea, Liverpool, Manure they start at under-eights... under eights! And then its hard to even make it because of the foreign players in the game. Chopper Harris in the EPL... no chance. I'm not an expert at the game by any means... but even I can see how much its changed. Players have had no choice but to improve just to get a chance.

    There was a time when John Barnes looked Brazilian, because you didn't expect English players to do what he did. Studge at his peak had samba feet and we didn't even go mad for it. Today we have Lallana doing Cruff turns for fun and nobody gives a stuff. Imagine if Garath Bale had appeared on the scene 20 years earlier... he'd have been a Balon D'or winner. Owen was running riot back in the 90s and Henry with the same amount of pace had column writers in a daze. They use to be one offs. We have two reckless speed demons in our 1st 11 now!

    But this is the sort of debate that occurs everywhere. People asking whether Tyson could have taken Ali, or if Messi is better than Maradona. In truth I'd put my money on the 'newer' athletes in both instances but thats just me and my reasoning being that over time just like every other sport there is the quest for perfection... looking at whats worked in the past and improving on it. Money plays a factor too more so than ever, because theres always somebody wanting to cash in. I don't know. Xxxx it... you tell me why you think the games not harder. How about we start there (before the witless one line wonders drop their crap)
    But if you give these sorts of players back
    In the day all the benefits modern athletes have you’ll probably find they would be as good if not better .
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    Also let’s talk about BIG VVD outstanding again
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    But if you give these sorts of players back
    In the day all the benefits modern athletes have you’ll probably find they would be as good if not better .
    Jack Charlton played until he was how old... at the highest level. You couldn't dream to do that now. Theres all ifs and buts...

    1) If they had better nutritionist and weren't allowed to drink they'd be fitter
    2) If they started being trained at a young age they'd be more technically gifted
    3) If the red and yellow cards were dished out more readily they'd have been able to express themselves more
    4) If Dr Steadman had a time machine they'd have had less career ending injuries
    5) If they my aunt was a man she'd be my uncle... and a top draw footballer

    Look all I'm doing is comparing the players they were to the players of today. I don't know why some people are taking this as a personal insult?
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    I think we've made a cornerstone signing with this guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer-LFC View Post
    I think we've made a cornerstone signing with this guy.
    Agreed. Reminds me of when Manure signed Japp Stam... he was just soooooo much better than any other defender in the league. Van Dijk just looks so good. Yes he'll make mistakes but I'm sold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    Also let’s talk about BIG VVD outstanding again
    and makes everyone around him better, Lovren was outstanding as well.
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