Notices
Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 21 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 621

Thread: Madrid, CL, Home, 10/3 19:45 - Preview and in game thread

  1. #61  
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    You want Robben and Ramos running at the slow Hyypia and overlapping? Then Aurelio is pinned back anyway to save Hyppia's arse, and effectively you've destroyed the whole point of three at the back, because your left WB is pinned.
    If that's why you don't like the formation then why did your first comment not mention any of it and instead give out about Masch at RWB?

    Also, on (our) left its not Robben and Ramos against Hyypia, its them against Hyypia and Aurelio with Alonso or Carragher to step across and provide backup when necessary. The point of playing 3 at the back in this instance would be to guarantee defensive solidity rather than to allow Aurelio to take more touches in the opposition half.

    I didn't say it was perfect and am merely suggest options which negotiate our lack of depth when we get a couple of injuries.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  2. #62  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by LearphollFC View Post
    If that's why you don't like the formation then why did your first comment not mention any of it and instead give out about Masch at RWB?

    Also, on (our) left its not Robben and Ramos against Hyypia, its them against Hyypia and Aurelio with Alonso or Carragher to step across and provide backup when necessary. The point of playing 3 at the back in this instance would be to guarantee defensive solidity rather than to allow Aurelio to take more touches in the opposition half.

    I didn't say it was perfect and am merely suggest options which negotiate our lack of depth when we get a couple of injuries.
    In your post you had Hyypia lined up as the leftmost of the 3 CBs. That's why Robben and Ramos would be running at him, because he would ne out there. If you've ever seen a 3-5-2 in operation, the 3 CBs are quite s[read apart by necessity, and if you've put Hyypia at the leftmost position then that is where he'ss be and Madrid will exploit that. He'd get slaughtered.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  3. #63  
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    In your post you had Hyypia lined up as the leftmost of the 3 CBs. That's why Robben and Ramos would be running at him, because he would ne out there. If you've ever seen a 3-5-2 in operation, the 3 CBs are quite s[read apart by necessity, and if you've put Hyypia at the leftmost position then that is where he'ss be and Madrid will exploit that. He'd get slaughtered.
    If they are attacking with Robben and Ramos down their right the three CBs shuffle over to fill in the gaps. Alonso drops back and tucks in for extra support. Carra stands off as the second line of defence should they get past Hyypia. If they switch flanks, Masch can hustle for a few seconds giving the centre backs time to shuffle all the way over to the right, Lucas drops in and Alonso moves out a bit.

    You’re assuming that Aurelio would be stranded somewhere in the AML region of the field but as I said, using this formation with the emphasis on defence would not allow this to happen often if at all. With Aurelio watching Ramos, Robben would be forced to take on Hyypia with Carra lurking behind him. So Robben would need to beat Hyypia well enough that he takes him out the game but without showing enough of the ball to Carra to allow him to tackle or shepherd him away from goal. Extremely difficult.

    And anyway, your main bone of contention with this formation appears to be no longer anything to do with Masch playing out of position but with Hyypia facing Robben. If we did play 4 at the back, then if Arby is available we play him with Skrtel, Carra and Aurelio, if not we play Carra, Skrtel and Hyypia with Aurelio. In either case we have just Aurelio and ONE OF Carra OR Hyypia isolated against Ramos and Robben rather than all three. So how is this a stronger defensive line up given that you have correctly identified Robben as Real’s most potent attacking threat?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  4. #64  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    16,761
    Reina

    Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

    Mascherano Alonso

    Kuyt Gerrard Babel

    Torres

    This is the most likely lineup. The same team that was so successful in the second half of last season.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  5. #65  
    fernandothelegend is offline First team regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    42,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogg View Post
    Reina

    Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

    Mascherano Alonso

    Kuyt Gerrard Babel

    Torres

    This is the most likely lineup. The same team that was so successful in the second half of last season.
    spot on this is the team to take us through and with the exception of riera it is our best team anyway.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  6. #66  
    Mapeke is offline In love with Fergie but don't let on
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    33,293
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandothelegend View Post
    spot on this is the team to take us through and with the exception of riera it is our best team anyway.
    To be honest, Riera has been so poor recently that I actually think Babel should be first choice. Not that I'm a huge Babel fan either, but he's the lesser of two evils.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  7. #67  
    fernandothelegend is offline First team regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    42,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Insua-rance View Post
    To be honest, Riera has been so poor recently that I actually think Babel should be first choice. Not that I'm a huge Babel fan either, but he's the lesser of two evils.
    well right now benny is performing better than both of them and has been our best player this month with 3 goals and 3 assists.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  8. #68  
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    176
    That's the team I'd most like to see but I'd be surprised if both Arbeloa and Torres are fit to start, so who do you put in if they aren't?

    With Torres in particular, if he starts he could easily fail to get into the game and risk damaging himself further. He isn't the sort of player who looks like they've never been away after an injury so I can't see him making too much of an impact either way unfortunately.

    Seeing as a goal is not an absolute priority I'd be happy enough to see Torres start on the bench with Babel up front.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  9. #69  
    bilsland is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    28,943
    Quote Originally Posted by Insua-rance View Post
    To be honest, Riera has been so poor recently that I actually think Babel should be first choice. Not that I'm a huge Babel fan either, but he's the lesser of two evils.
    I prefer Riera as at least when he loses the ball he quite often gets it back!
    It won't surprise me if we see Insua at LB and Aurelio at LM.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  10. #70  
    fernandothelegend is offline First team regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    42,177
    Quote Originally Posted by LearphollFC View Post
    That's the team I'd most like to see but I'd be surprised if both Arbeloa and Torres are fit to start, so who do you put in if they aren't?

    With Torres in particular, if he starts he could easily fail to get into the game and risk damaging himself further. He isn't the sort of player who looks like they've never been away after an injury so I can't see him making too much of an impact either way unfortunately.

    Seeing as a goal is not an absolute priority I'd be happy enough to see Torres start on the bench with Babel up front.
    i think if torres is injured and babel or kuyt play up front i wouldn't be suprised to see lucas play on the right as he has a few times this season when he comes on for kuyt. Hyppia to play if arbeloa is injured with carra at right back whether he likes it or not.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  11. #71  
    LordJamieOfCarragher is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    86,017
    Quote Originally Posted by bilsland View Post
    It won't surprise me if we see Insua at LB and Aurelio at LM.
    It would surprise me, Insua is not in our CL squad!
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  12. #72  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by LearphollFC View Post
    If they are attacking with Robben and Ramos down their right the three CBs shuffle over to fill in the gaps. Alonso drops back and tucks in for extra support. Carra stands off as the second line of defence should they get past Hyypia. If they switch flanks, Masch can hustle for a few seconds giving the centre backs time to shuffle all the way over to the right, Lucas drops in and Alonso moves out a bit.

    You’re assuming that Aurelio would be stranded somewhere in the AML region of the field but as I said, using this formation with the emphasis on defence would not allow this to happen often if at all. With Aurelio watching Ramos, Robben would be forced to take on Hyypia with Carra lurking behind him. So Robben would need to beat Hyypia well enough that he takes him out the game but without showing enough of the ball to Carra to allow him to tackle or shepherd him away from goal. Extremely difficult.

    And anyway, your main bone of contention with this formation appears to be no longer anything to do with Masch playing out of position but with Hyypia facing Robben. If we did play 4 at the back, then if Arby is available we play him with Skrtel, Carra and Aurelio, if not we play Carra, Skrtel and Hyypia with Aurelio. In either case we have just Aurelio and ONE OF Carra OR Hyypia isolated against Ramos and Robben rather than all three. So how is this a stronger defensive line up given that you have correctly identified Robben as Real’s most potent attacking threat?
    That would be precisely my plan if I was Madrid - get Robben against Hyypia with the added benefit of also drawing Carra over to help, thus leaving only Skrtel to deal with Raul and Higuera - not good news for us. We would be playing right to their strengths of Robben's speed, trickery and crossing ability.

    I also don't want Alonso spending his whole match tracking back to cover for Aurelio and to assist Hyypia. We need Alonso moving the ball around and keeping possession.

    Please please no 3-5-2, Rafa.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  13. #73  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by bilsland View Post
    I prefer Riera as at least when he loses the ball he quite often gets it back!
    It won't surprise me if we see Insua at LB and Aurelio at LM.
    Riera is suspended.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  14. #74  
    bilsland is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    28,943
    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    It would surprise me, Insua is not in our CL squad!
    Another Walls moment.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  15. #75  
    bilsland is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    28,943
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    Riera is suspended.
    contrary to the Insua comment, I know Riera is suspended for this game, I was talking generally but I can see why you thought otherwise ...God I've lost any credibility I ever had
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  16. #76  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by bilsland View Post
    contrary to the Insua comment, I know Riera is suspended for this game, I was talking generally but I can see why you thought otherwise ...God I've lost any credibility I ever had
    No, I don't think it's that serious, mate. And I didn't want to sound petulant, just wanted to make sure you knew - I didn't realize that until this morning when I remembered his yellow card at the Bernabeau...

    He would be good in this game - we need to keep the ball. Babel will be a nightmare, and may end up Madrid's best passer.

    Can't believe both he and Yossi are out -we really do things the hard way, don't we?
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  17. #77  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by bilsland View Post
    contrary to the Insua comment, I know Riera is suspended for this game, I was talking generally but I can see why you thought otherwise ...God I've lost any credibility I ever had
    and considering you have like a thousand rep points, far be it for me to correct you...
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  18. #78  
    bilsland is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    28,943
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    and considering you have like a thousand rep points, far be it for me to correct you...
    pippin2...you can correct me all you like, the proof is in LordJamieofCarraghers post above.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  19. #79  
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    That would be precisely my plan if I was Madrid - get Robben against Hyypia with the added benefit of also drawing Carra over to help, thus leaving only Skrtel to deal with Raul and Higuera - not good news for us. We would be playing right to their strengths of Robben's speed, trickery and crossing ability.

    I also don't want Alonso spending his whole match tracking back to cover for Aurelio and to assist Hyypia. We need Alonso moving the ball around and keeping possession.

    Please please no 3-5-2, Rafa.
    You aren't answering my question. If you think that Masch – Skrtel – Carra – Hyypia – Aurelio isn’t strong enough on the left, then how are Carra – Skrtel – Hyypia – Aurelio (with Masch just in front) any stronger?

    I would prefer to have Arbeloa on instead of Hyypia but my original post was addressing the fact that he, Agger and Torres might not be available.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  20. #80  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    16,761
    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogg View Post
    Reina

    Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

    Mascherano Alonso

    Kuyt Gerrard Babel

    Torres

    This is the most likely lineup. The same team that was so successful in the second half of last season.
    The name for this formation should be

    "The Ming-e"
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  21. #81  
    fernandothelegend is offline First team regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    42,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogg View Post
    The name for this formation should be

    "The Ming-e"
    it should be called rafa's tactical masterstroke.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  22. #82  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by LearphollFC View Post
    You aren't answering my question. If you think that Masch – Skrtel – Carra – Hyypia – Aurelio isn’t strong enough on the left, then how are Carra – Skrtel – Hyypia – Aurelio (with Masch just in front) any stronger?

    I would prefer to have Arbeloa on instead of Hyypia but my original post was addressing the fact that he, Agger and Torres might not be available.
    Aurelio would be further back, at proper LB. WB would mean he is higher forward but effectively pinned back by a team smart enough to play their attacking winger (Robben) as advanced as possible. It's the classic way to counter a 3-5-2, and effective (which is why hardly anybody plays it anymore).

    Won't matter anyway because it's looking more like Arbeloa will play, so Carra can play in the middle with Skrtel.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  23. #83  
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    Aurelio would be further back, at proper LB. WB would mean he is higher forward but effectively pinned back by a team smart enough to play their attacking winger (Robben) as advanced as possible. It's the classic way to counter a 3-5-2, and effective (which is why hardly anybody plays it anymore).

    Won't matter anyway because it's looking more like Arbeloa will play, so Carra can play in the middle with Skrtel.
    Let's hope so ey.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  24. #84  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by LearphollFC View Post
    Let's hope so ey.
    indeed - i think we need a proper RB and LB in there for this one

    if we score, they are **********; if not, it will be pretty nervy
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  25. #85  
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,392
    Quick question, why has there been no similar injury nightmare, bare bones, playing the youth team, type articles like there were about Man Ure giving them all the sympathy and excuses prepared incase Mourinho PWNED them again!

    Mr Ferguson joked about playing Carrick in defence but that's what Rafa had to do with Masch. With Rafa it is "Crazy man plays people out of position" and with Mr Ferguson it is "Severe injuries forces Sir Alex to desparate measures".

    ANYWAY, now that is off my chest,

    Reina
    Arbeloa - Carragher - Skrtel - Aurelio
    Mascherano - Alonso
    Kuyt - Gerrard - Dossena
    Babel

    I don't think Torres will be fit in time. And even if he is, given the punishment he received in the first league, I think the same again could rule him out even longer. If that team can hold out or nick a goal, then great... and if not, we have the option of bringing Torres on against a more weary legged Madrid who maybe don't have the energy to injure him with the first tackle!

    I don't want to see Babel starting out wide as Ramos loves getting forward and could cause us no end of nightmares if he isn't tracked back. You can see it's a negative attitude but for me it's common sense. If you allow them to have the freedom to be 2 on 1 with Aurelio all game in attack then it will kill us.

    I also think it's harsh dropping N'Gog for Babel given their last performances however leading the line against Sunderand and against Real Madrid are two different prospects. I imagine getting bullied all game by Pepe and Cannavaro not allowing him near the ball all game would be worse for his confidence than doing a stint on the bench. Plus, I'm sure he's realistic enough to know that he is still a kid and won't start every game anyway! Whereas Babel has a point to prove and I reckon there will be plenty of pace for him to exploit. I just hope he can. He isn't going to play on merit so it really is do or die for him this game.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  26. #86  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    I don't think Dossena has any business being in the squad against Madrid. That is suicide. Especially in such an advanced role. Actually, nowhere on the pitch is better.

    I would rather have Aurelio at LB and Inusa where you have Dossena. Not sure that is great, either, but I would prefer that setup to having Il Dross in there.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  27. #87  
    fernandothelegend is offline First team regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    42,177
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    I don't think Dossena has any business being in the squad against Madrid. That is suicide. Especially in such an advanced role. Actually, nowhere on the pitch is better.

    I would rather have Aurelio at LB and Inusa where you have Dossena. Not sure that is great, either, but I would prefer that setup to having Il Dross in there.
    why can't we just play aurelio at left back and babel on the left and have attacking options of
    kuyt gerrard babel
    torres
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  28. #88  
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandothelegend View Post
    why can't we just play aurelio at left back and babel on the left and have attacking options of
    kuyt gerrard babel
    torres
    That's what I would say will happen, and really is what I would want.

    I was responding to the poster's suggestion of Dossena at left attacking with Aurelio behind.

    Butr Babel really needs to keep the ball a bit more. Still run at defenders and keep Ramos pinned back, but not give the ball away so often. Oh, and pass sometimes.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  29. #89  
    fernandothelegend is offline First team regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    42,177
    Quote Originally Posted by pippin2 View Post
    That's what I would say will happen, and really is what I would want.

    I was responding to the poster's suggestion of Dossena at left attacking with Aurelio behind.

    Butr Babel really needs to keep the ball a bit more. Still run at defenders and keep Ramos pinned back, but not give the ball away so often. Oh, and pass sometimes.
    ryan babel's game intelligence is quite embarrassing and really nneds to drastically improve his decision making. But as i have said time and again this just could make ryan babel.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  30. #90  
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,392
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandothelegend View Post
    why can't we just play aurelio at left back and babel on the left and have attacking options of
    kuyt gerrard babel
    torres
    I tried to explain that here

    Quote Originally Posted by BabuYagu View Post
    ...

    I don't want to see Babel starting out wide as Ramos loves getting forward and could cause us no end of nightmares if he isn't tracked back. You can see it's a negative attitude but for me it's common sense. If you allow them to have the freedom to be 2 on 1 with Aurelio all game in attack then it will kill us.

    ...
    And Insua cannot play as he isn't registered for Europe. I am not for one second suggesting that Dossena is our best option there. However without Riera and Benny, and as they will have the marauding Ramos at Right Back, we need someone who at the absolutely minimum, will track his man so we are not constantly 2 on 1 on the left. If someone from a central area moves across to cover Ramos/Robben then you have a hole in the middle.... which I imagine is the aim of Madrid, to create space and time for players to hurt us.

    Dossena is the lesser of two evils.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   



Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •