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Not a bad point on the face of it but he only scored them when he came in from there. Come on, there was undeniable tension between Rafa and Stevie G - no matter how each glossed over it. Do you seriously think Gerrard was happy playing there? Did he not ever say that he wasn't?Originally Posted by Firepickle
Why is it your opinion that Gerrard 'broke Rafa's rules,' when he moved back into the middle? Rafa moved him there ffs!
He put him on the right, where he scored 23 goals, then Rafa moved him to the middle to be behind Torres and he scored another 40-odd in the next two seasons. He didn't just wander to those positions in the starting line-up because he fancied it. Rafa put him there because he knew what was best for him and when.
I remember clearly. You are remembering the nonsense that was spouted by the media, Kanwar and Drunken Oldmanc. I am remembering what the people who actually worked with him said.
so in essence every time Stevie (or the team for that matter) played well they were breaking the rules and every time we played badly they were adhering to Rafa's reign?
Istanbul was lucky someone got injured and was won in-spite of Rafa.
2nd in the table was because everyone else was bad.
Gerrard always played out of position and that was just wrong he was much better being in the center of midfield despite results and stats the prove otherwise.
you have no ounce of credibility and are highly opinionated witch is fine but you do need to realize your opinions are based on nothing but guess work and an incredible ability to see nothing but what you want to see, and after all that you have the nerve to imply someones blinked or has some sort of hero worship complex ?
i suggest you take the blinkers off la contrary to your personal belief Rafa did a good job some may see it as great but to say he did **** all and every thing he achieved here was lucky or because other teams were bad is silly misguided and down right blinkered
In the 4-2-3-1 formation we were employing, the left and right midfielders in the three cut in to allow the width to be provided by the right and left backs. Gerrard cutting in from the right was exactly the tactic that Rafa was using.
But according to him that wasn't Rafa's tactics, Stevie just decided to do that himself because he wasn't happy with Rafa,In the 4-2-3-1 formation we were employing, the left and right midfielders in the three cut in to allow the width to be provided by the right and left backs. Gerrard cutting in from the right was exactly the tactic that Rafa was using.
Again, fair facts but Rafa eventually moved him there (when it suited Torres). Rafa kept moving him back when it didn't. Stevie got his goals by floating 'out of position' and against the rules. It's the mark of the player that he got away with it. But then it's hard to argue against goals scored.
So now Torres is making the managerial decisions, not Gerrard? Okay. I'm out.
I don't read papers and I don't know who these people are.
Anyone with a different opinion is blinkered. ok. I'm out too (or should be...)
That's due to maturation of the player. Rafa was fortunate that he was in charge when Gerrard hit his peak, which coincided with the two trophies Rafa won.
Just remember that under Houllier, Gerrard was instrumental in a Uefa cup & League cup win with his goals & helped win 4 trophies & a unprecedented cup treble with Houllier.
Notice Torres hasn't been the same as when Rafa managed him, Rafa got the very best out of Torres and he did with Gerrard too.
How convenient. Even though Gerrard himself gives Rafa credit you refuse to. I suppose Carragher just conveniently matured as a player at the same time as Rafa moved him to centre-back too?
I'm guessing Liverpool making two Champions League finals and almost winning the Premier League is all because Gerrard matured too is it?
Very long ago a poster called Juanamena23/Juanito a huge admirer of Rafa and a true Liverpool fan posted a very rational view.
In an ideal situation, the post-Rafa Liverpool would need someone to continue Rafa's legacy and expand on it. Finding Rafa's replacement should have been a quest for continuation sucession. But the media demanded overhaul, the Mickey Mouse owners, the Chelsea fan Chairman and the incompetent CEO, have installed a man who ruined in six months every single bit of Rafa's jigsaw.
A trubute to Juanamena23 YNWA
It's true. People like coach791 talk about the fact that we had a complete overhaul after Rafa left and now look at us. However for some reason he sees that as Rafa's fault. I don't think that is true. I agree with Juanito that someone should have been brought in who could continue, not dismantle, Rafa's work, and surely if Rafa had left in other circumstances, under better owners, he would have seen to it that this was the case. Instead, we got two cowbows and a bad caretaker who tore down the place leaving bare bones and a big rebuilding job.
no! just no! you need to find the difference between opinion and blinkered.
look at what your posting read it without your bias put yourself in the other persons shoe's for a moment
every single good thing that Rafa done you attest to luck bad teams and Gerrard going against the standard tactics.
opinions are based on something scene heard read whatever
yours are not your opinions are based solely on things you think happened with little regard to anything else, stats quotes and anything else that is pointed your way inst argued down there is nothing for you to argue with is why, you merely disregard anything and point to well it must of bin this that or the other witch quite frankly is ******** you are either heavily blinkered or are ouch for a cheap wuming session
dont play hard done by no one's listening to your point of veiw blah blah, ive heard the same on many arguments its the cheapest way out
No, you are blinkered because you choose to ignore the words of the very people you are seeking to use as a weapon against Rafa, thinking that you know better than them and that they are liars.
This
Also Rafa hardly inherited a fantastic side from Houllier did he? Houlliers side needed overhauling too.
I remember how rival Top 4 managers encouraged Rafa's incompetent replacement, to overhaul the squad and were going on and on how difficult is his task was and how deep should the clear out be.
Of course they encouranged an overhaul, they wanted us to become a midtable club. They made it.
Worse than that we even had Purslow inside the club making sure we got rid of the players he didn't like (Aquilani, Insua). And look at the replacements.
was there not the point of trying to offload lucas too? Insua was a problem area being chucked in to the deep end far too soon he has turned a corner and is looking like a half decent player now, and lets not get started on Aquilani he seems a big problem for us as it stands no one want him and he wont get time here (rightly or wrongly) , there has to be a reason behind this now its gone on far too long
its seems there was a fad at the club in that time getting rid of "problems" and replacing with crap lol
He almost got rid of Lucas as well. What a complete moron (Purslow, not you, obviously).
I think Insua was still our second highest assister in that 'problem,' season. I definitely think he should have stayed and improved defensively.
this is true don't get me wrong i don't agree with him being sold, but his defensive duty's left a lot to be desired.
you see i don't agree with Rafa going but i can understand why after that season i do not agree with being replaced by someone that clearly is worse and i can not understand why he was let go in a time where we would be in no position to get someone better hell we didn't stand the chance of getting someone half as good
same way i feel about Insua i can understand the choice but don't get the replacements
Like many people said at the time H+G wanted a yes man and they got one. He also had the habit of saying yes at pretty much every available wrong opportunity.
oh i remember, but it was even silly on the leaches part as our form the start of that season and the way there yes man handled himself gave more of our supporters a reason to ask questions and eventually lead to there departure.
were they really that egotistical to think that they could get away with anything with regard to our club?
sadly football supports are that fickle including most of our own (unfortunate but thats the age we live in)
Hicks had already got away with ruining three other sports clubs prior to us and probably thought it would be easy to do the same to us quaint English folk.
Firstly Hicks was part of a consortium who bought Corinthians in Brazil. They proceeded to asset-strip the club by selling its' best players, replacing them with lesser players, and almost ran it into bankrupty. Hicks then managed to take over and bankrupt both the Dallas Stars and the Texas Rangers.
nice when you post something to get an answer and it eventually crops itself up ^_^
this is something people have to remember when talking about Rafa's time at our club (including you mr blinkered like it or not you have to understand this point there is no dismissing this fact)
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